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To: Salvation

Not to be combative, but I don’t understand your statement.
What is Paul writing about in I Thessalonians 4:16-17?

Honestly just wondering.


18 posted on 11/17/2017 9:55:44 AM PST by joethedrummer
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To: joethedrummer
As 1 Thessalonians 4 says
Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to [a]walk and please God (just as you actually do [b]walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you [c]by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from [d]sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to [e]possess his own [f]vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in [g]lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but [h]in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

9 Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12 so that you will [i]behave properly toward outsiders and [j]not be in any need.

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
This very clearly REFUTES the fake 19th century secrete pre-trib rapture philosophy

What does this actually teach?

St. Paul wrote to the Thessalnian Christians because they were worried about those who died before Christ's return. Many in the ancient world believed that a person simply ceased to exist upon death. These was a rumor in Thessalonica at the time Paul wrote the letter that the dead Christians had lost out on any chance of a physical resurrection. St.Paul assures them that it was not so. In fact, "the dead in Christ will rise first" to meet Christ

The Thessalonians knew their dead would rise again but apparently feared that they would not find them in Christ’s retinue at the time of his glorious return. St. Paul assures them that their dead will indeed be there; “slept through Jesus,” a unique phrase, equivalent to “the dead who are in Christ” of 15, cf. Rom 14:7-8. “In (the) word of the Lord”

Paul The Thessalonians knew their dead would rise again but apparently feared that they would not find them in Christ’s retinue at the time of his glorious return. St. Paul assures them that their dead will indeed be there; “slept through Jesus,” a unique phrase, equivalent to “the dead who are in Christ” of 15, cf. Rom 14:7-8. “In (the) word of the Lord”

As it is clear from his answer to their second question (5:1-12) that neither he nor anyone else knows the time of the Second Coming, there can be no question here of his either teaching or hinting at the imminence of the Parousia, as many moderns have thought. His utilization of Matthew 24 is conclusive of his conformity with Christ’s own teaching on the Parousia,Rapturists make the mistake of thinking "meet the Lord in the air" is about Christ not actually touching the earth.

The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere

This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2

And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth

A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power

NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth

Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds

The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably

  1. parousia - coming
  2. epiphaneia appearing
  3. apokalupsis revelation

Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming

Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton

In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.

THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.

83 posted on 06/16/2020 5:08:17 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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