Posted on 09/01/2017 1:40:56 PM PDT by NYer
How did Ezekiel 23:18-20 go over with the congregation??
Do you read, speak and understand ancient Koine Greek??? I'm impressed! ;o)
I can read some. Rusty. I refresh myself by reading John’s letters.
When I read Koine (or Attic) I look like Ike preparing D-Day. For Koine, I got me my lexicon(s), my grammars, and my super weapon: Kittel’s 10 volume ditionary of the NT.
Hebrew... kinda the same thing. Lexicon, Grammar, amd Lisowsky’s exhauative concordance.
And coffee.
You haven't dealt much with sheep ... or Catholics, have you? I ran a bunch of sheepies for more than a dozen years. (Hint: goats are more fun.)
That may be some ideal somewhere. And when the pastor throws down, either we appeal to the bishop, or to Rome, Or we salute and say,"Yessir, father, sir."
But the pastor doesn't throw down much, because he knows that uses up capital.
Srsly, I've been Catholic since 1994. The one time I saw the pastor get up in somebody's grille was when some university kids wore t-shirts that said something like, "Gay? OKAY!" to a weekday Mass. Bad move.
And I throw "dubia" at the guys I tussle with all the time. If they're "Spirit of Vatican 2" types, I go about my business and they go about theirs.
We've kind of done the quasi-epistemology of arguing from Scripture v. arguing from the Magisterium before. I don’t see either appealing to the disinterested observer more than the other.
My complaint about the NAB was about the translation. The notes are for the most part execrable as well, it's true. But I just want them, for example, to settle on one way to translate dikiaosyne. And some sentences are unneccesarily loosely rendered ... and I do mean rendered!
The facts are ... a lot of Catholic leaders do slip into an contemptuous attitude toward the laity. On the other hand, a lot of the laity make it easier than it ought to be for them to do so. I don't know what the answer is for that.
Typically what I see are Catholics trying to refute the false assertion that the Catholic Church does not proclaim/discuss the Bible/does not allow Catholics to read and know the Bible....etc, etc.
As taught by spirits of Hell just waiting for a human body to inhabit.
Same thing happened to me, too! And, what I realized was that I could not remain in a religion that kept the truth of the gospel from me all those years. God led me AWAY from that and I never looked back. PTL!
I don't have a problem with a refutation that Mass covers the entire Bible. It doesn't and any Catholic who thinks it does is ignorant. [There are specific verses that are no longer included in the new "mass"....but I digress.]
So you think more of the Bible was read in the past at Mass?
However, I have to say that I have never heard a Catholic assert that Mass does cover the entire Bible.
Welcome to the wide scope of assertions by Catholics (as well as Prots). In response to the statement by eagleone, " It's been shown also on these threads the entire Bible is not read in the annual liturgy process," one of your own here,Mercat, whom I also pinged above, asserted,
If one goes to daily Mass the Bible reading is complete.
In response to which i provided the same stats by a Catholic that i did here , which finds that even if one goes to daily mass then these RCs only hear 30% of the entire Catholic bible.
And this belief that Catholic hear all of the Bible at mass is shared by others. A Catholic blogger (http://catholictrenches.blogspot.com/2007/07/lectionary-statistics.html), states,
I occasionally come across someone talking about how much scripture we Catholics hear in Church and how we read the whole Bible through every 3 years during Mass. I'm always torn about how to respond to this. Maybe it's pride, but I have such a hard time ignoring inaccuracies - no matter how "unimportant" they seem to be (my poor, poor wife). Concerned with suppressing my reputation as a "know-it-all", I usually let the statement go uncorrected...
He goes on to say
Recently I ran across the information I had been looking for to back up what we've looked at above.
And which site (http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm) likewise finds that even if one goes to daily mass then these RCs only hear 32.7% of the entire Catholic bible.
And then from Catholic Answers forum we see this asked:
I've read that if we follow the Mass readings for the 3 year liturgical calendar, we would read/listen to the entire (or almost the entire) Bible.
In response another chimes in,
three year period of daily and Sunday mass attendence you would hear about 80-90% (this is my guesstimate based upon the readings covered) of the Bible.
In response to which is the research by one Todd Easton (Catholic) i provided.
Another RC blogger (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/albertlittle/the-church-is-reading-me-the-bible/) parrots the same claim,
I recently heard an incredible fact. If a Catholic were to attend Daily Mass—something I highly recommend from experience—they would hear almost the entire Bible in a three-year period. Almost the entire Bible.
And who is corrected by a Catholic respondent, Douglas Beaumont, who even references FR,
The stats on the annual Bible readings are something of an urban legend. We do not read 10+ pages of the Bible every Sunday, nor 2 pages every weekday! In the two year reading cycle, the mass covers about 13% of the OT (not including the singing of the Psalms), and 71% of the NT...
Moreover, there is a vast different btwn saying Catholics who attend Mass hear all or much % of the Bible, and saying that Catholics hear the Bible, since only about 23% say they attend Mass at least weekly, and "Fewer than 1 percent of Catholics attend daily Mass, according to Dynamic Catholic, a nonprofit institute in Kentucky," (http://www.lifezette.com/faithzette/going-daily-mass-changed-life/) and come in near last in personal Bible reading. Those associated with Pentecostal churches poled highest in having attended church the past week (which does to mean they always do). .
Typically what I see are Catholics trying to refute the false assertion that the Catholic Church does not proclaim/discuss the Bible/does not allow Catholics to read and know the Bible....etc, etc.
Rather, did not allow Catholics to freely read the Bible, or place a priority on enabling them to do so, but came to hinder it for hundreds of years .
boatbums- I’m so very happy to hear of your eternal life! What a blessing. I wish this for all my catholic friends here.
Yes, that describes the amalgam of believers coexisting in Catholicism, and her attitude toward such, unified in their identification as Catholics and secure that Mother Church, who treats even Ted Kennedy RCs as members, will see them thru to glory. Sadly, to their eternal horror in Hell.
When such hear the Biblical, no PC 45 min sermons is a typical conservative evangelical church,and of their need for conversion, they usually do not come back.
I think there’s a logical fallacy implicit here.
You can have a statistically “average Catholic” without all, or even any, individual Catholic having the characteristics of that statistical construct.
Well, in Fairfield, CA, there is Kolob Ct, Kolob Dr and Kolob Way. The former city manager, was a Mormon. I would never buy a house on one of those streets. He had a street named after himself too. 👎🔥😫😩
I went to Catholic Church today
I explored after the memorial
Interesting
Not much of a southern baptist I’ve ever heard of
Southern baptists know the trinity very well
Did you write that wrong or is it my brain
Some interchange Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit as third leaf
Not Mary
Not ever
No, I wrote it as it happened.
.
There was no "statistically average Catholic” in my post, but a condition and in which diverse parties can be presumed to both possesses a couple basic presumptions. You can argue that such are not unified in their identification as Catholics and secure that Mother Church, who treats even Ted Kennedy RCs as members, will see them thru to glory, but neither of us have any stats on that, only things which are indicative of an attitude.
Its part of the hierarchical thing, flowing from an exalted papacy. In evangelical circles we often see too much of a separation btwn pastors and laity, apart from position. NT pastors are to be given to hospitality (if possible) but how many of the laity have even seen the inside of his house.
And we (and I) are a long way from the credentials of the apostles:
But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. (2 Corinthians 6:4-10)
Yes. Very bad people are Catholics. I am a Catholic.
As far as I can tell, the collection of poltroons, buffoons, and luxuriously corrupt imcomptetents in high places is just evidence that God is keeping the Catholic Church afloat, because it's a good bet the skills, wisdom, or sanctity of the folks in management couldn't do it unassisted.
So, I say my prayers, read, pray with, and think about the Scriptures. And, I trust God. And he keeps on testing that trust. Very well. He knows what he is about.
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