“If the church preaches false doctrine by attributing to God things He never said and doesn’t preach pure doctrine that God did say, then the church violates 2nd Commandment and commits sin.”
Since the Church is the Body of Christ it cannot teach false doctrine. People can. The Church can’t. Just as the Church can’t sin. You sin. I sin. The Church doesn’t.
“If the reason I lost my faith in Christ’s promise is because a church tells me that I have to add my feeble contributions towards my salvation and essentially derogates the work of Jesus on the cross as insufficient, then yes, church has committed sin.”
False – for the following reasons: 1) If you lose your faith, YOU lose YOUR faith. Other individuals might have a hand in YOU losing YOUR faith, but the Body of Christ in itself cannot. It is a logical and spiritual impossibility. 2) The Church teaches only truth about Christ and salvation. Your fantasies about what it does and does not teach are YOUR fantasies.
“It will be better that a millstone be tied around their neck and drowned in the sea than face the judgment day.”
Sinful and erring individuals. Not the Church. All that will happen to the Church on Judgment Day is that it will enter glory.
“Throughout history, any remnant is characterized not by an institutional church but by those clinging to God’s promise even when our reason/experience tell us not to.”
False dichotomy. Christ established an institutional Church with visible leaders. There is no way to separate the visible Church on this earth from the invisible Church on this earth.
“Hence, the church is wherever two or three are gathered in His name and trusts His Word and promises.”
You might want to read Matthew 7:21 along with Matthew 18:20 which you just cited: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
“misses the whole point.”
Nope. It’s right on target and irrefutable. And that’s probably why you’re going to keep avoiding it.
“The church is a beautiful gift through which we teach, preach and confess to each other and to the world; we also receive absolution through confession and sacraments as established by God’s Word. That church has in it all the faithful from Adam through those yet to be born clinging to His promise across time and space and put their faith in NOTHING ELSE. Who belongs to that authentic church is revealed only on judgment day.”
And it doesn’t sin and can’t. And it doesn’t teach false doctrine and can’t.
“Roman Church trades in that gracious gift for an embarrassing idolatry of an institutional church regardless of its faithfulness to His Word.”
No, the Protestant sects aren’t even part of the Church. They attack Christ while claiming to know and love Him. Protestants are forced to lie about the Catholic Church and invent fantasies to provide a raison d’etre. As the former Protestant minister, John Henry Newman noted, “To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View)
“You believe in an institutional church.”
I believe in the Church since it is Christ’s. There’s no denying that it has institutional structure on this earth. God gave it Apostles. That means and institution no matter how much you say otherwise.
“We believe in a church that confesses the apostolic faith and relies on no man-made doctrines that are not clearly and directly taught by canonical scriptures.”
False. Show me where in scripture it says there are only 66 books of the Bible. Show me where sola scriptura is in scripture. Show me where sola fide is in scripture – especially in light of James 2:24 which denies it. Why do you think Martin Luther had such a dim view of the Letter of James?
“As for adiaphora, there are plenty of areas where people of good faith can differ without having to anathematize each other.”
There’s never a reason to believe someone who denounces Christ’s Church – as you have – has good faith.
“FYI, If the Roman Church repudiates Council of Trent and adopts unaltered Augsburg Confession, I will become a Roman Catholic.”
1) The Catholic Church will not renounce any truth.
2) I’m not “Roman”. I’m Catholic. The Church is Catholic. The Roman Church is part of it.
3) Why would the Church Christ founded – the Catholic Church - adopt the (s)creed of a latter-day, heretical German sect?
>>Since the Church is the Body of Christ it cannot teach false doctrine. People can. The Church can’t. Just as the Church can’t sin. You sin. I sin. The Church doesn’t.
Mindless drone repeating nonsense.
>>>>“If the reason I lost my faith in Christ’s promise is because a church tells me that I have to add my feeble contributions towards my salvation and essentially derogates the work of Jesus on the cross as insufficient, then yes, church has committed sin.”
>>False – for the following reasons: 1) If you lose your faith, YOU lose YOUR faith. Other individuals might have a hand in YOU losing YOUR faith, but the Body of Christ in itself cannot. It is a logical and spiritual impossibility. 2) The Church teaches only truth about Christ and salvation. Your fantasies about what it does and does not teach are YOUR fantasies.
And you screwed the pooch by essentially claiming what is truth is determined by what an institutional church teaches (which as varied fundamentally from time to time) and not what the scripture teaches.
>>>>“It will be better that a millstone be tied around their neck and drowned in the sea than face the judgment day.”
>>Sinful and erring individuals. Not the Church. All that will happen to the Church on Judgment Day is that it will enter glory.
Atleast, you surrendered your discerning faculties.
>>>>“Throughout history, any remnant is characterized not by an institutional church but by those clinging to God’s promise even when our reason/experience tell us not to.”
>>False dichotomy. Christ established an institutional Church with visible leaders. There is no way to separate the visible Church on this earth from the invisible Church on this earth.
Christ established a confessional church with fallible leaders and infallible promises. Hence, trust the infallible promises not fallible leaders.
>>>>“Hence, the church is wherever two or three are gathered in His name and trusts His Word and promises.”
>>You might want to read Matthew 7:21 along with Matthew 18:20 which you just cited: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
so it must follow, not everyone who says either “church, church” or “pope, pope” are home free.
>>>>“misses the whole point.”
>>Nope. It’s right on target and irrefutable. And that’s probably why you’re going to keep avoiding it.
I find your mindless repetition somewhere between mild amusement and unsurprising.
>>>>“The church is a beautiful gift through which we teach, preach and confess to each other and to the world; we also receive absolution through confession and sacraments as established by God’s Word. That church has in it all the faithful from Adam through those yet to be born clinging to His promise across time and space and put their faith in NOTHING ELSE. Who belongs to that authentic church is revealed only on judgment day.”
>>And it doesn’t sin and can’t. And it doesn’t teach false doctrine and can’t.
It does sin and does repeatedly and daily. A doctrine’s truth or falsity is judged by scripture not whether a clerical hierrarchy teaches it or not.
>>>>“Roman Church trades in that gracious gift for an embarrassing idolatry of an institutional church regardless of its faithfulness to His Word.”
>>No, the Protestant sects aren’t even part of the Church.
and loving it for 500 years.....
>>They attack Christ while claiming to know and love Him.
by preaching that what He did on the cross wasn’t enough, like your masters do?
>>>>Protestants are forced to lie about the Catholic Church and invent fantasies to provide a raison d’etre.
pfffft.....500 years and going strong...
>>>>“You believe in an institutional church.”
>>I believe in the Church since it is Christ’s. There’s no denying that it has institutional structure on this earth. God gave it Apostles. That means and institution no matter how much you say otherwise.
As Romans 1:21-22 says, “For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.”
Perhaps along with papist things?
>>>>“We believe in a church that confesses the apostolic faith and relies on no man-made doctrines that are not clearly and directly taught by canonical scriptures.”
>>False. Show me where in scripture it says there are only 66 books of the Bible. Show me where sola scriptura is in scripture. Show me where sola fide is in scripture – especially in light of James 2:24 which denies it. Why do you think Martin Luther had such a dim view of the Letter of James?
Because Luther didn’t see Christ in James. From Eusebius on, James was part of the scripture that was disputed whether it belongs in the cannon. Technical word for it is antilegomena. No such questions are raised about Romans, Galatians or Ephesians.
You don’t draw a fundamental soteriology doctrine from a disputed book when it wasn’t confirmed by other books that weren’t disputed (homologoumena). That’s where Rome screwed the pooch.
>>>>“As for adiaphora, there are plenty of areas where people of good faith can differ without having to anathematize each other.”
>>There’s never a reason to believe someone who denounces Christ’s Church – as you have – has good faith.
Then your spiritual masters have demonstrated bad faith with a charade of calls for unity.
>>>>“FYI, If the Roman Church repudiates Council of Trent and adopts unaltered Augsburg Confession, I will become a Roman Catholic.”
>>1) The Catholic Church will not renounce any truth.
too bad it has stopped announcing truth...
>>2) I’m not “Roman”. I’m Catholic. The Church is Catholic. The Roman Church is part of it.
Apparently, the only part of it....
>>3) Why would the Church Christ founded – the Catholic Church - adopt the (s)creed of a latter-day, heretical German sect?
Because Gospel is the truth. Just like the God chose (insignificant) Hebrews to be the vehicle of His Revelation, He chose (equally insignificant) Germans as a vehicle to reclaim His Gospel from the likes of your masters.
As God says in Isaiah 55:8-9,
8”“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.