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To: Luircin
I was talking about Ephesians, not Romans.

First, Paul is clear in Romans that God "will repay everyone according to his works." What is true in Romans is also true in Ephesians.

Turning to Ephesians, we see here that Paul's use of "works" is the same as in Romans, i.e. "works of the Law."

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. Therefore, remember that at one time you, Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by those called the circumcision, which is done in the flesh by human hands, were at that time without Christ, alienated from the community of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord; in him you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:8-22)
The works which might cause boasting that is mentioned here is what had, up to then, separated the Jews and the gentiles, i.e. circumcision and the Mosaic Law. In Christ Jesus Jews and gentiles have been united into one body with the abolition of circumcision and the old Law of Moses. To read Ephesians to mean that we are no longer bound by the moral law is to misunderstand Paul. This is made clear in the following:
So be imitators of God, as beloved children, and live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma. Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:1-5)
These words are spoken to believing Christians, not to pagans who have not yet accepted Jesus Christ. Despite our faith, immorality can loose us our salvation. Protestant attempts to take the words of Paul in isolation to support "faith alone" are examples of forcing Scripture to support the man-made traditions of Martin Luther and the other Reformers rather than relying on Scripture itself.
297 posted on 07/18/2017 11:25:36 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Your statement makes no sense what-so-ever.

If Paul’s words about ‘works’ are nothing but circumcision, then it’s really stupid to claim that salvation is not through circumcision, but then that God will judge us by our ‘works’ of circumcision.

How do you justify breaking up the Law of God into circumcision on one hand, and then keeping everything else?
In Romans 3, when Paul refers to ‘works of the law,’ he refers to far more than simply circumcision. He specifically refers to lies in chapter 3, to faithlessness in the heart in chapter 2, to stealing, adultery, and idol-worship, also in Chapter 2.

All these things fall under the heading of ‘works of the Law’ when Paul writes in his letter to the Romans.

I also believe that it was Jesus who said, “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”

Heaven and earth, I notice, have not passed away, nor has all of Jesus’ work been accomplished, since he has not yet returned. Therefore, either we are justified by the ENTIRE Law, including the Ten Commandments, or we are not.

The ‘render according to his works’ verse that you referred to is only one verse in the entire first three chapters of the letter to the Romans. Of course, Paul then spends the rest of the chapter and into Chapter 3 explaining how there is not a single person who is righteous and who deserves anything from God. So rendering to us according to our works, without grace, is nothing but giving punishment to us.

And then Paul comes to this:

“21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.”

Paul does not say grace-and-works, Paul does not say grace-plus-merit, Paul does not say grace-plus-sacraments, Paul does not say grace-plus-membership-in-some-church-in-Rome.

If you think that the Romanist works were so necessary for salvation, wouldn’t Paul have mentioned them? Wouldn’t he have explained them? The closest we get is the ‘law of faith,’ and Paul then spends the entirety of chapter 4 explaining how Abraham’s righteousness didn’t come from anything he did, but instead because he believed the Lord’s promises.


298 posted on 07/18/2017 1:01:13 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: Petrosius; boatbums

I ask bb to post the information regarding how Roman Catholic writers used “faith alone” in their writings. It’s very eye opening.


300 posted on 07/18/2017 1:05:49 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Petrosius
Despite our faith, immorality can loose us our salvation

Not once. Not ever.

304 posted on 07/18/2017 1:43:23 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Petrosius
Protestant attempts to take the words of Paul in isolation to support "faith alone" are examples of forcing Scripture to support the man-made traditions of Martin Luther and the other Reformers rather than relying on Scripture itself.


Catholics to take the words of hundreds of Early Church Fathers to support "Tradition; too!" are examples of forcing Scripture to support the man-made traditions of Rome; rather than relying on the Instruction Book Rome assembled so long ago: Scripture itself.


If I were to take some math class in school; and told which text we'd be studying from; I'd expect that there'd be NOTHING taught in the class that was NOT found in the book!

343 posted on 07/19/2017 3:18:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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