Don’t get me started. one of the things I loved about my church when I first joined was that it was the only one I’d been in that didn’t have an american flag anywhere to be seen.
The church is not about politics or countries. It is about our relationship with our creator and our fellow tavellers in that relationship.
Patriotism is for other places.
“one of the things I loved about my church when I first joined was that it was the only one I’d been in that didn’t have an american flag anywhere to be seen.”
Interesting. If I walk into a church and there isn’t an American flag, I walk out before the service starts. (And I capitalize the “A” in American.)
I have to say that I do not agree with your assessment that patriotism should not be part of the church.
Patriotism should be solidly in the church. We have our church in this country due to our initial revolution from England and the establishment of our freedom of religion. Otherwise our church would still at the whims of the monarchs. Much of the world is still that way with communist dictators, Muslim Imams, Iotolas, or what have you, or leftist socialist politians brutally suppressing Christianity on a world wide basis. The Christian church should be celebrating this country and our guaranteed freedom of religion.
The church is not about politics or countries.
The church is about our relationship with our creator and our fellow pilgrims in that relationship, and thus it is about politics, "the activities and affairs involved in managing a state or a government," (Word Web)
Not as mistaking the country for the kingdom of God, and longing for a repristinated Mayberry RFD society as idyllic, nor as driven by anxiety over what the world will do to us, but as salt and light seeking to make a difference in the lives of people for time and for eternity, bring them to Christ and to do His will on earth as it is in Heaven. .
And as stewards of the manifest grace of God seeking to save a country with a unique Christian historicity*, in which Christians had a unique position kind of were like shareholders, and which the devil thus seeks to convert to worship him.
Those who imagine there belongs no special affection for that country and grief over its spiritual declension and special burden fort it and to see the salvation of souls are the kind of "believers" the devil wants.
*
Alexis de Tocqueville (1805—1859. French political thinker and historian; best known for his two volume, “Democracy in America”) — The sects that exist in the United States are innumerable. They all differ in respect to the worship which is due to the Creator; but they all agree in respect to the duties which are due from man to man. Each sect adores the Deity in its own peculiar manner, but all sects preach the same moral law in the name of God...Moreover, all the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same...
In the United States the sovereign authority is religious, and consequently hypocrisy must be common; but there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth...
There is certainly no country in the world where the tie of marriage is more respected than in America or where conjugal happiness is more highly or worthily appreciated, In Europe almost all the disturbances of society arise from the irregularities of domestic life. To despise the natural bonds and legitimate pleasures of home is to contract a taste for excesses, a restlessness of heart, and fluctuating desires. Agitated by the tumultuous passions that frequently disturb his dwelling, the European is galled by the obedience which the legislative powers of the state exact. But when the American retires from the turmoil of public life to the bosom of his family, he finds in it the image of order and of peace...
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live...
Thus religious zeal is perpetually warmed in the United States by the fires of patriotism. These men do not act exclusively from a consideration of a future life; eternity is only one motive of their devotion to the cause. If you converse with these missionaries of Christian civilization, you will be surprised to hear them speak so often of the goods of this world, and to meet a politician where you expected to find a priest.
They will tell you that "all the American republics are collectively involved with each other; if the republics of the West were to fall into anarchy, or to be mastered by a despot, the republican institutions which now flourish upon the shores of the Atlantic Ocean would be in great peril. It is therefore our interest that the new states should be religious, in order that they may permit us to remain free." (Democracy in America, Volume I Chapter XVII, 1835; http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/religion/ch1_17.htm)
• There are certain populations in Europe whose unbelief is only equaled by their ignorance and their debasement, while in America one of the freest and most enlightened nations in the world fulfills all the outward duties of religion with fervor.
Upon my arrival in the United States, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more did I perceive the great political consequences resulting from this state of things, to which I was unaccustomed. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom pursuing courses diametrically opposed to each other; but in America I found that they were intimately united, and that they reigned in common over the same country. (Democracy in America, [New York: A. S. Barnes & Co., 1851), pp. 331, 332, 335, 336-7, 337; http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/religion/ch1_17.htm)
A quote often attributed to Tocqueville but which is not documented by any early sources, states,
• Not until I went into the churches of American and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”
Benjamin Franklin (1706—1790. One of the Founding Fathers; leading thinker; author; printer; statesman; postmaster; diplomat, and a non-Christian deist) — ...serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practiced. Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel. And the Divine Being seems to have manifested His approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness by which the different sects treat each other, and by the remarkable prosperity with which He has been please to favor the whole country. (Benjamin Franklin, "Information to those who would Remove to America" In Franklin, Benjamin. The Bagatelles from Passy. Ed. Lopez, Claude A. New York: Eakins Press. 1967; http://mith.umd.edu//eada/html/display.php?docs=franklin_bagatelle4.xml. Also, John Gould Curtis, American history told by contemporaries .... Volume 3, p. 26)
Thank you; Michelle; for your input.
"And keep yer damned religion outta my GOVERNMENT; too!!!"
We got you covered - our church has two ;-). The place that we rent has two American flags and a flag for each branch of the armed services mounted on the wall. No one has every said a word about it.
The views of the elders would be in line with Piper's. Our allegiance is to God first. Patriotism is not wrong provided it doesn't become an idol.