True.
I think that most of us are elephant inspectors in our own way...
Posted on 07/05/2017 10:00:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
The 2016 presidential election brought politics and faith together in a way that excited some evangelical voters but made others uneasy. Then-candidate Donald Trump courted the evangelical vote in an astonishing and unprecedented way, and the melding of Christianity and nationalism created a most unusual marriage.
Trump's nationalism combined with the effort to win evangelical voters gave some Protestant leaders, like the Southern Baptist Convention's Russell Moore, pause. Other leaders, like Liberty University President Jerry Falwell, Jr. and Texas pastor Dr. Robert Jeffress, placed themselves firmly within the Trump camp, which paid off come Election Day.
Jeffress appears to have doubled down on this nationalistic take on Christianity. This past Sunday at his church, First Baptist Church of Dallas, the congregation celebrated Freedom Sunday.
The service took place, complete with church members waving little American flags, the choir and worship team leading the congregation in patriotic songs, and fireworks. You read that right — fireworks.
Professor and blogger John Fea chronicled the service and weighed in:
People waved American flags during the service.
The last time I checked, the waving of the American flag was a sign of support or loyalty to the nation. Jeffress had no problem allowing such an act to take place in a church sanctuary–the place where Christians worship God as a form of expressing their ultimate loyalty. Patriotism is fine. Flag-waving is fine. But I wonder if any of the congregation felt uncomfortable that all of this took place in the church sanctuary on a Sunday morning.
One of the songs that the congregation sang was Woody Guthrie's folk song, "This Land Is Your Land." For those who don't know, Guthrie wrote the song as a godless alternative to "God Bless America." The original verses will make your head explode, and even if you don't have a problem with patriotism in the church, the inclusion of "This Land Is Your Land" should make your blood boil.
All of this begs the question: what place does patriotism have during a church service? Granted, First Baptist of Dallas's service appears to be way over the top, but can a church service focus on nationalism or patriotism?
It's a tricky question, really. Mentioning holidays like Independence Day, Memorial Day, and Veterans Day during the service is fine. Praying for our country is wonderful — and vital. Talking about our freedom is great, especially if the sermon or discussion centers on our freedom in Christ. But an entire Sunday morning service turned into a festival of patriotism turns America into an idol.
True.
I think that most of us are elephant inspectors in our own way...
One can tell that Paul is writing to INDIVIDUALS in that chapter;
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
and not some organization.
2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols.
The title: Do Some Evangelicals Go too Far in Their Efforts to Bring Patriotism into the Church? doesn't even MENTION the USA.
Revelation 5:8-10
When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they held the golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song: “Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood You purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them into a kingdom, priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
Even the signs on your buildings agree with you.
But there are a few little nagging problems that have been mentioned over and over on FR...
...the presidential campaign of Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith in 1844: “Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that ‘they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.’
Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.
You make kitty smile!
Personally, I've become more and more uncomfortable with singing "God Bless America" when we can't even stop the funding of Planned Parenthood.
I disagree.
We got you covered - our church has two ;-). The place that we rent has two American flags and a flag for each branch of the armed services mounted on the wall. No one has every said a word about it.
The views of the elders would be in line with Piper's. Our allegiance is to God first. Patriotism is not wrong provided it doesn't become an idol.
The views of the elders would be in line with Piper’s. Our allegiance is to God first. Patriotism is not wrong provided it doesn’t become an idol.
When the church building is being used as a community center, I think anything “not sinful” is fine. But when it is used to gather specifically in the name of God and to worship him, things like national flags, favorite album covers, team logos, etc. are inappropriate.
But that’s just me. Different people have different opinions on it.
Actually, those are not in the room used as the sanctuary but there are some in the next room which is used for snacks and fellowship. This is a meeting house owned and used by others so we don't have much say in the matter of decoration. We are in a college and military town so some of this stuff just goes with the territory.
Unless prominently displayed, I probably wouldn't even notice a flag.
Which has no more substance than asserting that church being about our relationship with our creator and our fellow travelers in that relationship means that being concerned and seeking to influence the activities and affairs involved in managing a government upon Christian principals is excluded. although making the government our hope and security and preoccupation is.
I agree.
And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid. And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves. (Mark 9:5-8)
Indeed it was that one day.
but can a church service focus on nationalism or patriotism? It's a tricky question, really. Mentioning holidays like Independence Day, Memorial Day, and Veterans Day during the service is fine. Praying for our country is wonderful — and vital. Talking about our freedom is great, especially if the sermon or discussion centers on our freedom in Christ. But an entire Sunday morning service turned into a festival of patriotism turns America into an idol.
Too likely the case for many in the few churches that turn an entire Sunday morning service turned into a festival of patriotism, yet the example mentioned was a once a year event, and is hardly a norm. I understand the concern over the pot that boils over, but what about the one that hardly simmers?
Actually there should be both grieving over iniquity, first our own, then that of the church, and then that of our earthly country, and for that of the world.
And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing,
Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary . Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. (Ezekiel 9:4-6)
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)
As concerns our earthly country, what is missed or dismissed by Christians who exclude patriotism is that America has a unique Christian heritage, and we are blessed to have entered into the labors of others, and the blessings procured by them.
And thus a special appreciation for this country is in order (and for Israel), as well as special grief over its spiritual declension, and thus a special focus on preserving what was handed on, as "good stewards of the manifold grace of God," (1 Pt. 4:10) and regaining what was lost.
However, what we typically see is either the country being treated as if it was the church, with more concern over it than the body of God, so that a Christian's peach and joy is dependent on political circumstances, or we see ambivalence toward the state of government, and or attacks on Christians who show concern. However,
If America does not bless God it shall not be blessed.
holidays = Holy Days
I compare our country to ancient Rome more than to the ancient Jewish theocracy of Israel.
I’m with you. I don’t even remember what particular point in the post I disagreed with. The post was too long and covered too much stuff.
I simply did not have the time to cover all the nuances brought up. I needed to grade my driveway.
I think we much agree, and hope you got the driveway in. Here in this crowded (20,000 per sq mile) city they require 19.5 feet across and 200 feet back from the sidewalk for a driveway permit, but for about 500.00 they might grant you a special permit.
I suspect this is the idea of college grads who live in the suburbs.
Err... make that 20’ back!
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