Posted on 06/20/2017 4:12:13 PM PDT by ealgeone
Question: "What is the church?"
Answer: Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.
The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return. The body of Christ is comprised of two aspects:
1) The universal church consists of all those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). This verse says that anyone who believes is part of the body of Christ and has received the Spirit of Christ as evidence. The universal church of God is all those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
2) The local church is described in Galatians 1:1-2: “Paul, an apostle … and all the brothers with me, to the churches in Galatia.” Here we see that in the province of Galatia there were many churches—what we call local churches. A Baptist church, Lutheran church, Catholic church, etc., is not the church, as in the universal church—but rather is a local church, a local body of believers. The universal church is comprised of those who belong to Christ and who have trusted Him for salvation. These members of the universal church should seek fellowship and edification in a local church.
In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination. According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Local churches are gatherings of members of the universal church. The local church is where the members of the universal church can fully apply the “body” principles of 1 Corinthians chapter 12: encouraging, teaching, and building one another up in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
While some sins are worse to us than others in what we think of as severity, they ALL carry the same penalty.
Lying will land you in hell as surely as murder.
Hate =murder in God's economy.
Will the Catholic who hates someone still be saved?
My opinion about someone;'s salvation is irrelevant. It doesn't change the facts, whatever they may be.
BTW, do YOU think that Judas is saved?
Sure you can.
The Catholic church just has you convinced that you can’t.
That’s what you get for listening to men. They handicap your relationship with the Father.
Do you believe they intentionally tried to get there?
No, I can’t.
I’m a male so I can’t procure an abortion.
I will not ask God for the state of another’s soul.
I have no idea of who is saved, except for the saints.
How about you? Is JFK saved?
Will you ask your “god”?
Amen! God won’t care what denomination we do or don’t belong to. What matters is what we believe about Jesus and whether or not we have received His gift of everlasting life by faith.
Don’t feed the troll. You’ll get caught up playing fifty what-if questions and NOTHING will change.
Is this a definition that the early Christian Church would have expressed?
You tell me which particular organic church is referred to below, excluding others:
"For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Ephesians 5:29-32) "
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:18)
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. (1 Corinthians 15:9)
In contrast to,
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia: (2 Corinthians 1:1)
And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house: (Philemon 2)
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (Revelation 1:3)
The first refers to the general body of Christ, which is the church, and in fact it is the only One True Church which always and only consists 100% of true believers, while the organic fellowships (the 2nd group) which they are to gather together in, inevitably become admixtures of wheat and tares. To be part of the first general body it is assumed one will be part of the 2nd group, but it is not be assumed that to be part of the latter means one is part of the former.
Yes.
You are right MM, but some people may accuse you of committing the sin of presumption. 🤣 By all means, carry on. 👍🙀
The Greek behind this statement is awesome!
The Greek verb for has is in the present indicative tense. The verb for has passed is in the perfect indicative tense.
The indicative is used to assert a statement of fact in the Greek. In other words...what Jesus is saying is true.
The present can be defined as a continual action. The perfect describes an action that occurred in the past with effects in the present (from the time of the speaker/reader).
The Greek negation of οὐκ (not), before comes, rules out the possibility of being in judgment.
The Greek for out of and into both convey a change of direction for the believer. In this case from judgment and into life.
This verse is crystal clear of the position of the one who hears and believes. That person has passed out of judgment and into life.
And it's all because of God's love toward us sinners.
It can't get any better!
I'm trusting Jesus and His promise.
The apostles were involved in the early church, and did good work for it to be sure — but the church survives due to the Holy Spirit, without whom the apostles would have been powerless to spread the gospel. (This is why Jesus told them to wait for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that happened on Pentecost.)
How many times are they listed in the Bible?
How many times is Abraham mentioned in the bible? A lot!
But it would be a big mistake to assume that salvation came from Abraham, as John the Baptist said And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
(Matt 3:9) — the church was established on and by Jesus with who he is and what he's done, it is likewise sustained by the holy spirit.
Yeshua, and Yeshua alone knows for sure, no matter what any human says, who His faithful are.
We can make all the determinations and definitions we want, and we can make all the personal declarations we want, but only Yeshua knows us as no human does, and knows who His faithful are.
If you believe you are part of that faithful, you are not vexed by this question nor do you seek the world’s answers to it, nor do you make your own opinion of others as a substitute for His. You leave it to Him.
 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.' 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.' |
Yeah... Sure...
Too bad the Early Church Fathers disagree with what you just posted.
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following Early Church Fathers promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:
• Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
• Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
• Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
• Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
• Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):
Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."
--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
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