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Scripture and Tradition
Catholic.com ^

Posted on 06/18/2017 2:09:43 PM PDT by narses

Protestants claim the Bible is the only rule of faith, meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. In the Protestant view, the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages. Anything extraneous to the Bible is simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong—and may well hinder one in coming to God.

Catholics, on the other hand, recognize that the Bible does not endorse this view and that, in fact, it is repudiated in Scripture. The true "rule of faith"—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

In the Second Vatican Council’s document on divine revelation, Dei Verbum (Latin: "The Word of God"), the relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

"Thus, by the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence."

But Evangelical and Fundamentalist Protestants, who place their confidence in Martin Luther’s theory of sola scriptura (Latin: "Scripture alone"), will usually argue for their position by citing a couple of key verses. The first is this: "These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31). The other is this: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be equipped, prepared for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16–17). According to these Protestants, these verses demonstrate the reality of sola scriptura (the "Bible only" theory).

Not so, reply Catholics. First, the verse from John refers to the things written in that book (read it with John 20:30, the verse immediately before it to see the context of the statement in question). If this verse proved anything, it would not prove the theory of sola scriptura but that the Gospel of John is sufficient.

Second, the verse from John’s Gospel tells us only that the Bible was composed so we can be helped to believe Jesus is the Messiah. It does not say the Bible is all we need for salvation, much less that the Bible is all we need for theology; nor does it say the Bible is even necessary to believe in Christ. After all, the earliest Christians had no New Testament to which they could appeal; they learned from oral, rather than written, instruction. Until relatively recent times, the Bible was inaccessible to most people, either because they could not read or because the printing press had not been invented. All these people learned from oral instruction, passed down, generation to generation, by the Church.

Much the same can be said about 2 Timothy 3:16-17. To say that all inspired writing "has its uses" is one thing; to say that only inspired writing need be followed is something else. Besides, there is a telling argument against claims of Evangelical and Fundamentalist Protestants. John Henry Newman explained it in an 1884 essay entitled "Inspiration in its Relation to Revelation."

Newman’s argument

He wrote: "It is quite evident that this passage furnishes no argument whatever that the sacred Scripture, without Tradition, is the sole rule of faith; for, although sacred Scripture is profitable for these four ends, still it is not said to be sufficient. The Apostle [Paul] requires the aid of Tradition (2 Thess. 2:15). Moreover, the Apostle here refers to the scriptures which Timothy was taught in his infancy.

"Now, a good part of the New Testament was not written in his boyhood: Some of the Catholic epistles were not written even when Paul wrote this, and none of the books of the New Testament were then placed on the canon of the Scripture books. He refers, then, to the scriptures of the Old Testament, and, if the argument from this passage proved anything, it would prove too much, viz., that the scriptures of the New Testament were not necessary for a rule of faith."

Furthermore, Protestants typically read 2 Timothy 3:16-17 out of context. When read in the context of the surrounding passages, one discovers that Paul’s reference to Scripture is only part of his exhortation that Timothy take as his guide Tradition and Scripture. The two verses immediately before it state: "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:14–15).

Paul tells Timothy to continue in what he has learned for two reasons: first, because he knows from whom he has learned it—Paul himself—and second, because he has been educated in the scriptures. The first of these is a direct appeal to apostolic tradition, the oral teaching which the apostle Paul had given Timothy. So Protestants must take 2 Timothy 3:16-17 out of context to arrive at the theory of sola scriptura. But when the passage is read in context, it becomes clear that it is teaching the importance of apostolic tradition!

The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later. Jesus told his disciples: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative. He commissioned them, saying, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).

And how was this to be done? By preaching, by oral instruction: "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. It is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.

Further, it is clear that the oral teaching of Christ would last until the end of time. "’But the word of the Lord abides for ever.’ That word is the good news which was preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:25). Note that the word has been "preached"—that is, communicated orally. This would endure. It would not be supplanted by a written record like the Bible (supplemented, yes, but not supplanted), and would continue to have its own authority.

This is made clear when the apostle Paul tells Timothy: "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). Here we see the first few links in the chain of apostolic tradition that has been passed down intact from the apostles to our own day. Paul instructed Timothy to pass on the oral teachings (traditions) that he had received from the apostle. He was to give these to men who would be able to teach others, thus perpetuating the chain. Paul gave this instruction not long before his death (2 Tim. 4:6–8), as a reminder to Timothy of how he should conduct his ministry.

What is Tradition?

In this discussion it is important to keep in mind what the Catholic Church means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.

They have been handed down and entrusted to the Churchs. It is necessary that Christians believe in and follow this tradition as well as the Bible (Luke 10:16). The truth of the faith has been given primarily to the leaders of the Church (Eph. 3:5), who, with Christ, form the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). The Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit, who protects this teaching from corruption (John 14:25-26, 16:13).

Handing on the faith

Paul illustrated what tradition is: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed" (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).

The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).

This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:1–4). What’s more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14. These and other things have been given to Christians "through the Lord Jesus" (1 Thess. 4:2).

Fundamentalists say Jesus condemned tradition. They note that Jesus said, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?" (Matt. 15:3). Paul warned, "See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ" (Col. 2:8). But these verses merely condemn erroneous human traditions, not truths which were handed down orally and entrusted to the Church by the apostles. These latter truths are part of what is known as apostolic tradition, which is to be distinguished from human traditions or customs.

"Commandments of men"

Consider Matthew 15:6–9, which Fundamentalists and Evangelicals often use to defend their position: "So by these traditions of yours you have made God’s laws ineffectual. You hypocrites, it was a true prophecy that Isaiah made of you, when he said, ‘This people does me honor with its lips, but its heart is far from me. Their worship is in vain, for the doctrines they teach are the commandments of men.’" Look closely at what Jesus said.

He was not condemning all traditions. He condemned only those that made God’s word void. In this case, it was a matter of the Pharisees feigning the dedication of their goods to the Temple so they could avoid using them to support their aged parents. By doing this, they dodged the commandment to "Honor your father and your mother" (Ex. 20:12).

Elsewhere, Jesus instructed his followers to abide by traditions that are not contrary to God’s commandments. "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice" (Matt. 23:2–3).

What Fundamentalists and Evangelicals often do, unfortunately, is see the word "tradition" in Matthew 15:3 or Colossians 2:8 or elsewhere and conclude that anything termed a "tradition" is to be rejected. They forget that the term is used in a different sense, as in 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15, to describe what should be believed. Jesus did not condemn all traditions; he condemned only erroneous traditions, whether doctrines or practices, that undermined Christian truths. The rest, as the apostles taught, were to be obeyed. Paul commanded the Thessalonians to adhere to all the traditions he had given them, whether oral or written.

The indefectible Church

The task is to determine what constitutes authentic tradition. How can we know which traditions are apostolic and which are merely human? The answer is the same as how we know which scriptures are apostolic and which are merely human—by listening to the magisterium or teaching authority of Christ’s Church. Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported books of Scripture are authentic. If the Church revealed to us the canon of Scripture, it can also reveal to us the "canon of Tradition" by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the apostles. After all, Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18) and the New Testament itself declares the Church to be "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Mainline Protestant
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To: Mark17

Thanks be to God you are now part of The Body of Christ! See you in the clouds, Bro ...


341 posted on 06/21/2017 9:53:44 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: MHGinTN
See you in the clouds, Bro ...

Affirmative sir. 😄

342 posted on 06/21/2017 10:00:57 PM PDT by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
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To: Mark17

bump


343 posted on 06/22/2017 4:01:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums
Much appreciated. Thanks be to God, but not all feel the same way!
344 posted on 06/22/2017 4:55:12 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: Mark17

It is and I still haven’t gotten an answer yet.


345 posted on 06/22/2017 6:05:10 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: ravenwolf

The problem is in the English where the words *petra* and *petros* are both translated to the same English word.

In the Greek they are different words and denote different objects.

But Catholics never seem to want to address the Greek.


346 posted on 06/22/2017 6:10:40 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: metmom; Arlene66
It is and I still haven’t gotten an answer yet.

I doubt you ever will. 👎😩

347 posted on 06/22/2017 9:29:17 AM PDT by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
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To: metmom
But Catholics never seem to want to address the Greek. ---------------------------------------------------------- Petra or Petros makes no difference, Jesus spoke in Aramaic. The Aramaic word for 'rock' or 'stone' is kêfā Cephas is simply a romanization of Greek Κηφᾶς (Kēphas), which itself is just the Greek spelling of Aramaic kêfā. Copied from Strongs concordance The Greek Name Πέτρος (Petros), is the Greek translation of kêfā and also means 'rock' When we read Jesus`s words we need to think of what it means in Aramaic, not Greek or English. John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone. It was evidently thought of as a stone at the time it was written down. All of the translations calls it a stone, a rock or Peter. So i will go along with what scripture says.
348 posted on 06/22/2017 12:34:55 PM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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To: imardmd1

Actually, Cephas is just a different way to spell Kefas with the English alphabet.


Yes, I have heard that it is just a romantic word for Kefas which is Greek for the Aramanic Kefa.

John 1:42
And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

It is evident that even at that time the name meant stone or rock which in English is interpreted as Peter.

And it makes no difference if it means a small stone or a big one, that is only a play on words.

It appears to me that Peter did take the lead among the Apostles which was known by Jesus that he would.

At the same time i do not see any where that it says any thing about Peter being Pope.

The Papacy is religion and i can not see Jesus as thinking kindly toward religion.


349 posted on 06/22/2017 1:19:41 PM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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To: MHGinTN

I’ll bet you enjoyed that correction. ;-)


Ha ha, yeah it is not every day i can get a chance like that.


350 posted on 06/22/2017 1:28:21 PM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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To: ravenwolf

All right you two; what’s the Greek word for step-cousin?


351 posted on 06/22/2017 1:37:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

It’s a phrase, not a single word.


352 posted on 06/22/2017 2:51:11 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: ravenwolf
Already treated this a ways back:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3562022/posts?page=204#204 (click here)

Check it out. Actually, Peter tried to impose himself as a/the leader of the Twelve, but in all, that never worked out very well. There were much better and more spiritual men who came to the fore, though Simon is respected for being one of the twelve; one used by Jesus to show that He can make a contributor to the Christian culture out of even the most unlikely individuals.

You might not like it, but my thought is that Scripture thoroughly demonstrates that Jesus nicknamed Simon "Stone" because of his hard-headedness.

He was a lot like me--usually intransigent.

353 posted on 06/22/2017 3:01:45 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: ravenwolf

P.S. — I forgot: bossy, also.


354 posted on 06/22/2017 3:10:35 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: MHGinTN
May I add one point? ... A certain saved member of a Corinthian assembly was having his own mother as his wife. Paul admonished the assembly to put that one out for satan's destruction of his body so that his soul might be saved. Such an one will stand before the Bema Seat IN HEAVEN, 'naked' having escaped the Judgment as if by fire.

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:6-15)

The judgment seat of Christ, which all will appear before, will manifest the manner of workmanship each one built the church with - which every believer is doing, directly or indirectly, by commission of omission - with one gaining or losing rewards based upon his labor (yet which God really deserves credit for, for all things are of Him. )

But i do not think any will be without any rewards, or that many will be without some loss, at least if they were born again for long. Saving faith is that which effects obedience - "My sheep hear my voice and follow Me..." (Jn 10:27). Yet "in many things we offend all." (James 3:2)

And as regards the grave incestuous man of 1Cor. 5, the purpose of the chastisement was not to save the man as by fire, but to bring necessary repentance by the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:5)

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32)

355 posted on 06/22/2017 5:55:17 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: MHGinTN
Any RC who describes "saved by faith alone" as meaning faith that is alone is either ignorant or engaging in deception, or is referring those who likewise are either ignorant or engaging in deception as to what sola fide historically meant.

Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification;(d) yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.(e) - http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/westminster-confession-faith/

In his Introduction to Romans, Luther stated that saving faith is, a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever.. .Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-faith.txt]

“This is why St. Luke and St. James have so much to say about works, so that one says: Yes, I will now believe, and then he goes and fabricates for himself a fictitious delusion, which hovers only on the lips as the foam on the water. No, no; faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man... if I have previously seen a sinner, I now see in his changed conduct, manner and life, that he believes . So high and great a thing is faith.”[Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:341]

This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]

“We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works . Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]

What Augustine says is indeed true: He who has created you without yourself will not save you without yourself. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life...Works save externally, that is, they testify that we are just and that in a man there is that faith which saves him internally, as Paul says: ‘With the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation’.” [What Luther Says 3: 1509]. [Ewald M. Plass, “What Luther says,” page 1509]

if obedience and God’s commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil’s own doings , although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead...And St. Peter says, Ye are to be as faithful, good shepherds or administrators of the manifold grace of God; so that each one may serve the other, and be helpful to him by means of what he has received, 1 Peter 4:10. See, here Peter says the grace and gifts of God are not one but manifold, and each is to tend to his own, develop the same and through them be of service to others.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 1:244]

Christ is the priest, all men are spiritual lepers because of unbelief; but when we come to faith in him he touches us With his hand, gives and lays upon us his merit and we become clean and whole without any merit on our part whatever. We are therefore to show our gratitude to him and acknowledge that we have not become pious by our own works, but through his grace, then our course will be right before God...[Sermons of Luther 1:152]

356 posted on 06/22/2017 6:12:48 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212

Thank you. Thus ‘good works’ are the transforming power of God in us changing our behaviors to seek His Righteousness living out through us. The good works are the behavior pattern of the born from above shunning behaviors of the natural man and striving to behave as the child of God that we are in Him. It is indeed sad that Catholic mind cannot readily define the ‘good works’, works of righteous living by His Presence in us.


357 posted on 06/22/2017 6:36:32 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: ravenwolf
Jesus spoke in Aramaic.

And yet the Inspired Scriptures are not in Aramaic.

GOD the Holy Spirit chose specific Greek words to express His truth.

In other words, your reasoning is interesting, but not applicable, without denying what God actually said.

358 posted on 06/22/2017 7:15:26 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: daniel1212
And as regards the grave incestuous man of 1Cor. 5, the purpose of the chastisement was not to save the man as by fire, but to bring necessary repentance by the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:5)

Rom 6:6 AV: "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified1 with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed2,
that henceforth we should not serve3 sin. 
For he that is dead is freed4 from sin."
-------

Notes:

1 Aorist tense, passive voice, indicative mode; at some point in submits to the pain of crucifixion
2 Aorist tense, passive voice, subjunctive; at some point experiences disintegration
3 Present tense, active voice, participle; be continually persistently serving
4 Perfect tense, passive voice, indicative mode; stands unfettered by

The old sinful being when its crucifixion results in death and annihilation is replaced by a new being no longer overcome by the sin principle, and living for ever.

It is worthy of note that crucifixion is not an instant process. Though its end is sure, it takes time.

359 posted on 06/23/2017 12:16:40 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

And yet the Inspired Scriptures are not in Aramaic.


That is true which is all the more reason to believe that Jesus called Simon a stone or rock.

John1:42
And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

What more do we need? some one is writing down what Jesus said and it is plain that is what they thought it meant at the time it was wrote down.

Jesus predicted that Simon would be called a stone.

The name was translated to Peter long after that, what it means in Latin or English like you say may be interesting but has nothing to do with it.

Mathew 16
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,( Cephas ) and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus did not appoint Simon to lead the apostles, he just knew that he would after he received the holy spirit.

Mathew 23 tells us that none of the Apostles would have authority over the others.

Also it is very likely that James ( the so called brother of the Lord who was not an Apostle was the Bishop at the Church in Jerusalem.

It tells us nothing of any of the Apostles being leaders of any particular Church.

I have no problem disbelieving the Catholic doctrine of Peter being Pope with out trying to take away what the Bible has to say.


360 posted on 06/23/2017 9:41:37 AM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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