To whom are we to pray, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit?

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[ealgeone]

Question: "To whom are we to pray, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit?"

Answer: All prayer should be directed to our triune God—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that we can pray to one or all three, because all three are one. To the Father we pray with the psalmist, “Listen to my cry for help, my King and my God, for to you I pray” (Psalm 5:2). To the Lord Jesus, we pray as to the Father because they are equal. Prayer to one member of the Trinity is prayer to all. Stephen, as he was being martyred, prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit” (Acts 7:59). We are also to pray in the name of Christ. Paul exhorted the Ephesian believers to always give “thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 5:20). Jesus assured His disciples that whatever they asked in His name—meaning in His will—would be granted (John 15:16; 16:23).

We are told to pray in the Spirit and in His power. The Spirit helps us to pray, even when we do not know how or what to ask for (Romans 8:26; Jude 20). Perhaps the best way to understand the role of the Trinity in prayer is that we pray to the Father, through (or in the name of) the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit. All three are active participants in the believer’s prayer.

Equally important is whom we are not to pray to. Some non-Christian religions encourage their adherents to pray to a pantheon of gods, dead relatives, saints, and spirits. Roman Catholics are taught to pray to Mary and various saints. Such prayers are not scriptural and are, in fact, an insult to our heavenly Father. To understand why, we need only look at the nature of prayer. Prayer has several elements, and if we look at just two of them—praise and thanksgiving—we can see that prayer is, at its very core, worship. When we praise God, we are worshipping Him for His attributes and His work in our lives. When we offer prayers of thanksgiving, we are worshipping His goodness, mercy, and loving-kindness to us. Worship gives glory to God, the only One who deserves to be glorified. The problem with praying to anyone other than God is that He will not share His glory. In fact, praying to anyone or anything other than God is idolatry. “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols” (Isaiah 42:8).

Other elements of prayer such as repentance, confession, and petition are also forms of worship. We repent knowing that God is a forgiving and loving God and He has provided a means of forgiveness in the sacrifice of His Son on the cross. We confess our sins because we know “He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9) and we worship Him for it. We come to Him with our petitions and intercessions because we know He loves us and hears us, and we worship Him for His mercy and kindness in being willing to hear and answer. When we consider all this, it is easy to see that praying to someone other than our triune God is unthinkable because prayer is a form of worship, and worship is reserved for God and God alone. Whom are we to pray to? The answer is God. Praying to God, and God alone, is far more important than to which Person of the Trinity we address our prayers.

[ReaganGeneration2]

Here is a site with many scriptural references to praying with and for the dead:
http://www.catholicbible101.com/thedead.htm

[metmom]

‘How could anyone who understands God’s unconditional and guaranteed love for those who believe, take that love and throw it back in God’s face?

Nobody can understand God's unconditional love.

We can be grateful for it and thank Him for it and avail ourselves of it, but it's the height of arrogance to claim that it can be understood.

Such a person is demonstrating not that eternal security has given him a license to sin, but rather that he or she has not truly experienced salvation through Jesus Christ.

That's what we keep telling Catholics and they keep arguing with us that that's not what we believe. They tell us that believing in the security of the believer is essentially a license to sin.

[metmom]

To obtain God’s grace, as you say, we must put our trust in God first, right?

Essentially.

Once they do this, do people slip back by their own bad choices of lost trust?

Maybe they don't trust God as they should but that does not equate to loss of salvation.

NOBODY trusts God fully for everything.

Have you ever worried?

That's not trusting God.

Have you ever tried to figure out on your own how to deal with a situation?

That's not trusting God.

Our salvation does not depend on our ability to place continued trust in god. It depends on HIM forgiving us our sin, makings us new, born again, born from above, creatures in Christ Jesus, canceling the record of debt that stands against us, transferring us into the kingdom of the Son He loves, and sealing us with the promises Holy Spirit who is the GUARANTEE of our inheritance until the day we take possession of it.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Colossians 2:13-15 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritanceuntil we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[metmom]

The original question was the efficacy of praying for others. Do you think it’s helpful for you to ask God to ensure others do put their trust in God, and keep it?

But only those still alive here on earth.

[metmom]

Do you think the Bible is the only way the following happens?: “When he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.” — John 16:13

The WORD of God is Truth, and the source of Truth and it is through the preaching of that that salvation comes to people.

But none of your rationalizations for praying to people who have died here on earth and left this planet with excuse or justify disobeying God's commands to pray to Him only and against trying to contact the dead.

[ReaganGeneration2]

This is an ancient debate. Catholics believe you choose God’s merciful grace through free will, through not only a declaration, but also through chosen thoughts and actions (via free will) constantly. This battle to overcome human frailties is overcome by God, theologically - but there is still a human step needed, almost constantly, to accept, which, again, is manifest in thoughts and actions. And so we pray for God to give us and others the knowledge and strength to make that step. How is that different than the basic Protestant teaching?

[Elsie]

Hint: Mary and the saints exist to help YOU.

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Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.

Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED. 

Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

(Leo XIII: Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895) — [p. 19, no. 44]

Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

She says, "He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord.   "Qui me invenerit, inveniet vitam, et hauriet salutem a Domino."

Listen," exclaims St. Bonaventure on these words, "listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation."  "Audite qui ingredi cupitis regnum Dei: Virginem Mariam honorate, et invenietis vitam et salutem perpetuam."-psalt. B.V.ps.48.

 

Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.

Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

 

“The Catholic Church has always and with justice put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God.”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Supreme Apostolatus, September 1, 1883.) — [p. 32, no. 104]

“... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae, September 12, 1897.) [p. 68; no. 302]

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"Only She Can Help You"
by Father Nicholas Gruner, S.T.L., S.T.D. (Cand.)
In this letter introducing The Fatima Crusader Issue 38, Father Gruner discusses the growing lies and deception about Russia's errors and the consecration of that nation. He also reminds us that, while it is urgent that we be informed about and fight for Our Lady's cause, we must ask for Her help and intercession.

In the Fatima sanctuary, at the exact spot where Our Lady appeared, Father Gruner pays homage to Her while touching the original statue of Fatima. Father Gruner was recently graced with this rare opportunity since normally this sacred image is always protected by a glass covering which completely surrounds it all day long.

Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
In this article taken from The Glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsus explains that there are countless souls in Heaven who are there now only because Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them there. If a soul persists in true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, She will certainly lead that soul to Heaven.

 

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The Rosary
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is greatly important that Our Lady insisted on the Rosary. When at Fatima She spoke of the salvation of sinners, of the ruin of souls in hell, of wars and peace, and of the future of our age. Our Lady indicated and recommended the Rosary as the prayer that saves, that brings peace, that preserves the faith.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is truly a treasure to have a strong devotion to Our Lady, for it is She who unites us to Jesus and brings us to Heaven, as this article explains.

Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.

The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote “The Glories of Mary” in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church.  In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due.  She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation.  It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven.  And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church.  De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.

 

Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.

At Fatima, Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.

Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.

I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.

 

 Jesus and Mary — Our Hope

It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.

No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.

 

http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp

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"Blessed is he whose interior offers the Blessed Virgin Mary a place of repose." Devotion towards the Blessed Virgin remains in all who are the inheritance of Our Lord; that is to say, in all who will praise Him eternally in Heaven.

O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."

...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate." 

 

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St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23

Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24

St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25

On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26

 23.  "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."—Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
 24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
 25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
 26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Roman Catholics do not pray TO Mary and the Saints.

Then HOW do you get their attention?

[Elsie]

People writing on websites should educate themselves.

like THIS website??

[Elsie]

...but they absolutely cannot correctly assert Catholics are heretics.

Why not?

What have Catholics done to Prots in the past?

[Elsie]

...but they absolutely cannot correctly assert Catholics are heretics.

Protestants are head cases.

[Elsie]

I love the sound of a good cat-fight in the morning!!

[ealgeone]

None of those support what you claim.

[ealgeone]

Let's start with this one as you claim it supports praying to the dead.

But I've added the rest of the passage for context.

Matthew 17 1-3: And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light. And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” 6When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. 7And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” 8And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

9As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.” 10And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; 12but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.

Observations:

Peter, James and John did not pray or even converse with Moses or Elijah.

Peter's understandable statment was ignored.

The purpose of this very unique meeting was explained in v5.

They were told not to share with until Christ had been resurrected.

This does not support praying to the dead as the Roman Catholic claims.

It does deny the Catholic claim of purgatory though.

It does support the eternal security of the believer as both Moses and Abraham believed God...though they were failed individuals.

[MHGinTN]

You still do not see the great chasm between working for or to retain salvation, and GOD's Grace. That is understandable due to your as yet unregenerate spirit. Spiritual things are not discerned by mental wrestling, they are spiritually discerned. While the spirit int he soul of a man us still dead that man cannot discern spiritual things!

The way you are perceiving the issue of 'getting saved, then retaining that salvation' is in fact the way you excuse your 'striving for salvation' ... you remain caught in the works based salvation, stealthily hiding your pride in works as the notion of you must keep your salvation, as if GOD plays yo-yo with your immortal soul by depositing Life in your dead spirit then snatching it away when you fail to perform as your religion has misguided you to believe you must behave.

You religion has taken Pauls advice to 'work out your own salvation' to mean something Paul did not intend as proven by the rest of his instructions to us. Salvation is a gift of GOD to the one who believes God's Promise to regenerate that one. Your religion has added 'now you must take responsibility to keep that gift or God will take it away, but might give it back if you do what the orh instructs you to do.

THAT is not salvation by Grace, it is salvation by your mighty effort. And yes, if you could do it that would be mighty since an intellect far beyond yours is constantly tempting you to violate a law which has been dealt with In CHRIST once for all forever.

Will you learn what it means to be a new creation, alive in the now, even as the dead old man remains in the wings, stinking up the place?

[MHGinTN]

While the spirit in the soul of a man us is still dead that man cannot discern spiritual things!

[avenir]

“Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “Let us do evil that good may result?” Their condemnation is deserved!”

Romans 3:8

[ReaganGeneration2]

“You religion has taken Pauls advice to ‘work out your own salvation’ to mean something Paul did not intend as proven by the rest of his instructions to us”

A) You can’t just ignore Paul’s advice to work out your salvation
B) It takes effort for the first time someone proclaims “Lord, Lord”, and that proclamation needs to happen daily or even hourly or more, because flawed people slip back.
C) This “Cheap Grace” has plagued “your religion” for centuries, and led many people to errors like I hypothetically suggested before: that people can think they can do any sin they want. Not so much to that extreme, but people do this on a smaller scale, with laziness and pride and small separations from God, often pushed by Satan. We are supposed to be vigilant constantly.

Choose to ignore all that if you want. Many of us sadly do, way too much in this Post-Enlightenment culture.

[Bobsvainbabblings]

“And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.” Rev 8:4

Here the ‘saints’ are the righteous on earth, while the ancients are men in heaven, what we now refer to as saints. This occurs at a time when there are still men on earth, as shown by an earlier verse which also shows that there are men already in heaven:

“And no man was able, neither in heaven, nor on earth, nor under the earth, to open the book, nor to look on it.” Rev 5:3

This can reasonably be interpreted to mean that our prayers go through the ancients (saints) and angels in heaven to God.

How do the saints and angels get our prayers? Since they are in heaven with God while they are passing along our prayers, God must approve, unless you think things happen in heaven against God’s will.

You may disagree with this interpretation, but it is indeed based in scripture.”””

This is typical of most of the Catholic Religion. It uses scripture taken out of context. It shows how well the god of this world is able to deceive people. Yes, this is scripture. We can argue as to who these saints are. There is one thing you can’t argue, this is happening some time in the future during the tribulation. No evidence of it happening now.

Let God our Father lead us to his truth, BVB

[ReaganGeneration2]

Besides contradicting scripture like Paul’s, another problem you have, by saying “there’s nothing you need to do” is that you’re telling Catholics we need to do something.