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To: af_vet_1981
In that sense one cannot separate works from faith, for faith without works is dead.

Even "dead" faith (faith without works) can save.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)

Works justify no man before God.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:1-5)

These scriptures assert the truth that it is faith that saves, not works.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Salvation is a gift. Gifts do no require any meritorious work to receive or to keep. If salvation does require work, then it wasn't a gift, but rather a debt owed to the worker.

Those who are trusting in their works in any capacity to save them have made God out to be a liar.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (1 John 5:9-12)

The believer receives the gift of eternal life, not temporary life that can vanish if a displeased master decides to become an Indian giver and take back the gift.

When a son of God is birthed by God (which is not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh, nor the will of men -- John 1:12,13) he becomes known to God and will forever be his child. He might not walk after the spirit and instead indulge the flesh (i.e. be the black sheep of the family), but he remains a son, sealed with the holy Spirit of promise:

As Paul says to the Ephesians in chapter 1:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This is the father's will ,b>as it pertains to salvation:

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:35-40)

Recap:

God is repeating himself so that even the thickest head can understand, if he wants to.

79 posted on 06/11/2017 8:10:01 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: nonsporting
There is no support in the scriptures for salvation with dead faith.

That is a very unusual teaching and not in keeping with the Westminster Confession of Faith (11.2) for example, which is supposed to be the accepted expression of Calvinism. Which faith community did you obtain that from ?

Works justify no man before God.

Justification is by faith and faith without works is dead.

Notice the emphasis on works, deeds, working, obeying in this passage. Let it seep into the soul.

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.



Romans, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses one to sixteen,

as authorized, but not authored, by King James

96 posted on 06/12/2017 4:51:54 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: nonsporting
Adding in the dropped quote:

"Even "dead" faith (faith without works) can save."

There is no support in the scriptures for salvation with dead faith.

That is a very unusual teaching and not in keeping with the Westminster Confession of Faith (11.2) for example, which is supposed to be the accepted expression of Calvinism. Which faith community did you obtain that from ?

Works justify no man before God.

Justification is by faith and faith without works is dead.

Notice the emphasis on works, deeds, working, obeying in this passage. Let it seep into the soul.

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.



Romans, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses one to sixteen,

as authorized, but not authored, by King James

97 posted on 06/12/2017 5:11:05 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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