Replies

Replying to your multiple posts at once to save time, since the weekend's about up here:

360: No walking back, just explaining what she said in the context of how medieval monks used scapulars and what Catholicism actually teaches about scapulars.

361: No, "proving a negative" is arguing for the non-existence of something based on an absence of evidence. I am not arguing from an absence of evidence, I am arguing from the positive evidence of Scripture: you can search it from Genesis to Revelation and there is no prohibition against asking for prayer requests from the deceased, and there are Scriptures that support it (Revelation 5:8), as well as the historical fact that Jews and Christians have been doing it since the time the church was founded and not seeing it as Biblically problematic, post-16th-century claims to the contrary.

362: Nothing fantastic about saying faithful Christians are with God, as we see them in Revelation (Revelation 5:8, 6:10, 14:13, 20:6).

363: No, last I checked, being a fan of Tolkien and Lewis was not required to be Catholic, though it often does help.

364: Some of Mary's roles in the Bible that Catholics emphasize: she obeys the will of God ("May it be done unto me according to your word"--Luke 1:38) out of humility (Luke 1:48) and because she believes God, in contrast to Zechariah who was skeptical (Luke 1:45; cf. 1:18f); her voice makes John the Baptist leap for joy and prompts Elizabeth to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" and to proclaim that Mary is "blessed among women", which Mary echoes when she prophecies that "From now on all generations will call me blessed" and that the Mighty One will extend mercy to future generations (Luke 1:39ff); she gives birth to Jesus in a manager, a symbol of God's compassion for the poor (Luke 2:7); she brings Jesus to the temple to be circumcized, fulfilling the law of Moses as she will train her son to do, initiating a path that will cause her son to cause a falling and rising of many in Israel and and to be a sign of contradiction, and causing her own soul to be pierced also (Luke 2:21ff); she searches for Jesus and finds him teaching, and treasures his words in her heart (Luke 2:44ff); she follows Jesus all the way to the Cross unlike the disciples who fled (John 19:25f); she witnesses the risen Jesus and the ascension and prays with the Apostles for the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 1:1ff); she intercedes at Cana, prompting Jesus' first public miracle (John 2); she appears when the ark of the covenant is opened in heaven and protects the Messiah from the dragon by fleeing into the desert, enraging the dragon against her offspring (Revelation 11:19ff); but her offspring will crush the head of the serpent (Genesis 3:15). Those are a few roles emphasized in the Rosary. There are numerous others based on meditations on other Scriptural passages.

365: Not what the original post meant by "failed".

367: "Blessed are you when people insult you. . .great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."--so thanks for increasing my reward in heaven.

368: The context is the same as the one Jesus was debating with the Sadducees, whose position on the dead in general was similar to the one you are taking on Mary; and no, Rome does not teach that every believer who has died is now in heaven, but you might want to compare the passages you quote on metaphoric "sleep" with Luke 16.

369: If you're that bored, I'll sign you up for my fan club. But I doubt I'll have much time to continue this discussion during the week, so I apologize in advance for any delayed or abbreviated response.

371: You can measure the infinite mathematically in terms of set theory, as Georg Cantor demonstrated, or physically and metaphysically in terms of the contrast between potential and actual infinity and space-time and eternity, as St. Thomas Aquinas did, developing Aristotle's definition of infinity. I'd explain the quotes by reading them in the context of the original authors instead of out of context on a polemical website. Without doing an exegesis of each author quoted, what they generally mean is that Mary's prayers to her Son are efficacious and that she prays to Him to distribute His graces to us and especially the grace to persevere in faith until death. Many Protestants who have taken the time to research this with an open mind have come to see there is no conflict between Rome's official teaching and Catholic lay practice regarding Mary. Catholics don't worship her either officially or unofficially. We worship the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, to whom we pray when we join the angels in singing, "Gloria in excelsis Deo".

I am not arguing from an absence of evidence, I am arguing from the positive evidence of Scripture: you can search it from Genesis to Revelation and there is no prohibition against asking for prayer requests from the deceased, and there are Scriptures that support it (Revelation 5:8),

HUH??

Revelation 5 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne, a book written within and without, sealed with seven seals.
²And I saw a strong angel, proclaiming with a loud voice: Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
³And no man was able, neither in heaven, nor on earth, nor under the earth, to open the book, nor to look on it.
⁴And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open the book, nor to see it.
⁵And one of the ancients said to me: Weep not; behold the lion of the tribe of Juda, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
⁶And I saw: and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing as it were slain, having seven horns and seven eyes: which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.
⁷And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne.
⁸And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints:
⁹And they sung a new canticle, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; because thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God, in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.
¹⁰And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.
¹¹And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne, and the living creatures, and the ancients; and the number of them was thousands of thousands,
¹²Saying with a loud voice: The Lamb that was slain is worthy to receive power, and divinity, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and benediction.
¹³And every creature, which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them: I heard all saying: To him that sitteth on the throne, and to the Lamb, benediction, and honour, and glory, and power, for ever and ever.
¹⁴And the four living creatures said: Amen. And the four and twenty ancients fell down on their faces, and adored him that liveth for ever and ever.

No prohibition from driving a truck into a crowd of people; either.

Many Protestants who have taken the time to research this with an open mind have come to see there is no conflict between Rome's official teaching and Catholic lay practice regarding Mary. Catholics don't worship her either officially or unofficially.

Many; what a fuzzy word with no meaning numerically.

official: nice qualifier to distance the Head from the PRACTICE of the feet.

don't worship her: I guess you'll be the FIRST Catholic on these threads to DISOWN the teaching of THESE 'church fathers'; right??

Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.

Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED.

Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

(Leo XIII: Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895) — [p. 19, no. 44]

Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

She says, "He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord. "Qui me invenerit, inveniet vitam, et hauriet salutem a Domino."

Listen," exclaims St. Bonaventure on these words, "listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation." "Audite qui ingredi cupitis regnum Dei: Virginem Mariam honorate, et invenietis vitam et salutem perpetuam."-psalt. B.V.ps.48.

Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.

Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

“The Catholic Church has always and with justice put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God.”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Supreme Apostolatus, September 1, 1883.) — [p. 32, no. 104]

“... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae, September 12, 1897.) [p. 68; no. 302]

"Only She Can Help You"
by Father Nicholas Gruner, S.T.L., S.T.D. (Cand.)
In this letter introducing The Fatima Crusader Issue 38, Father Gruner discusses the growing lies and deception about Russia's errors and the consecration of that nation. He also reminds us that, while it is urgent that we be informed about and fight for Our Lady's cause, we must ask for Her help and intercession.

In the Fatima sanctuary, at the exact spot where Our Lady appeared, Father Gruner pays homage to Her while touching the original statue of Fatima. Father Gruner was recently graced with this rare opportunity since normally this sacred image is always protected by a glass covering which completely surrounds it all day long.

Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
In this article taken from The Glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsus explains that there are countless souls in Heaven who are there now only because Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them there. If a soul persists in true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, She will certainly lead that soul to Heaven.

The Rosary
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is greatly important that Our Lady insisted on the Rosary. When at Fatima She spoke of the salvation of sinners, of the ruin of souls in hell, of wars and peace, and of the future of our age. Our Lady indicated and recommended the Rosary as the prayer that saves, that brings peace, that preserves the faith.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is truly a treasure to have a strong devotion to Our Lady, for it is She who unites us to Jesus and brings us to Heaven, as this article explains.

Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.

The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote “The Glories of Mary” in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church. In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due. She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation. It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven. And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church. De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.

Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.

At Fatima, Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.

Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.

I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.

Jesus and Mary — Our Hope

It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.

No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.

http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp

"Blessed is he whose interior offers the Blessed Virgin Mary a place of repose." Devotion towards the Blessed Virgin remains in all who are the inheritance of Our Lord; that is to say, in all who will praise Him eternally in Heaven.

O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."

...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate."

St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23

Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24

St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25

On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26

23. "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."—Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp