Thanks, it’s good to know that both you and ealgeone agree that praying to saints, including Blessed Mary, is entirely acceptable and based on scripture.
Love,
O2
Only that's not what they said. Nice try, though!
Tell me, why do you or does anyone pray to deceased "saints" and especially Mary? I come from a Roman Catholic background and I remember well being given prayers (the Our Father, the Hail Mary, especially) as penance to do after confession. I always wondered how saying prayers could be seen as adequate "punishment" for sins we committed and then confessed. Yet, from a young age I didn't pray very much at all TO dead saints because I always thought praying directly to God was better (it was just an instinctive act - no one told me to do or not do so). So, what do you see as the benefit of praying to saints and Mary to petition God for you when you know you can go to Him directly?
I agree that we are encouraged to pray for each other in Scripture but I see that as more about having a stake in the ministries and lives of fellow believers. On the other hand, praying to those who are already dead presumes they first of all can hear our prayers - even THOUGHT prayers - and, secondly, that there is some intrinsic value in their prayers over those of other Christians - like everyday variety Christians are less effective or something. Granted, James tells us the effectual, fervent prayers of righteous people avails much, but I have seen fervent prayers to Mary come back unanswered. At least with people we talk to here, we can interact and share in the blessings of answered, or unanswered, prayers. There's NO way we can know our prayers to the dead are even heard much less that they avail at anything. Even when it does seem that prayers to saints get results, more often than not, it's the saint that gets the praise and glory and not God. That is a huge flashing sign to me.
I know this thread was posted to try to prove early Christians prayed to Mary after her death and for some it is adequate proof but for others it didn't prove anything other than extra-biblical rites and doctrines were brought into practice in the community centuries after the last Apostle died. We don't have solid proof that they either taught believers to do this or encouraged it. Is it possible that this is one of those "disputable matters" and not something that should divide fellow Christians or cause bitterness, anger and dissension? I guess what I'm trying to say is that non-Catholic Christians have genuine reasons why we don't practice prayers to anyone other than God. Can Catholics and Orthodox believers accept that or must we ALL march to the same drummer on this point?
Go for it!
(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)
| 1 | Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces. |
| 2. | I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. |
| 3. | The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies |
| 4. | It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. |
| 5. | The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. |
| 6. | Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. |
| 7. | Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church. |
| 8. | Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise. |
| 9. | I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. |
| 10. | The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven. |
| 11. | You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary. |
| 12. | All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. |
| 13. | I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death |
| 14. | All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ. |
| 15. | Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination. |
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,
no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.
There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."
Sister Lucia dos Santos
Uh....no. You've posted at best a fabrication of the truth.
You will not find anything I've said that would say it's ok to pray to dead saints, including Mary, and that it is based on Scripture.
If anything, I've said quite the opposite and maintain that it isn't acceptable to pray to dead saints and or Mary based on Scripture.
You may want to revisit this thread where you and I had a rather lengthy discussion on this topic.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3530637/posts?page=153#153