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To: daniel1212
What? How does communication btwn to persons in the same realm outside of Heaven translate into praying to invisible created beings in Heaven from earth??? Unlike God, who alone is shown able to hear all prayer in Heaven, I only see two-way communication btwn other persons as both somehow actually being in the same realm, and apparently visibly so as i recall.

    You have further restricted the question to invisible created beings in Heaven from earth. Now that is a tall order.
  1. Created being, check,
  2. Invisible as in no longer visible, check.
  3. Saint in heaven, check.
  4. Caller on earth, check.
  5. Made a request or prayer, check.
  6. Got an answer, check.
  7. Gave the glory to God, check.
  8. What's not to like ?

The saint carried the request to heaven, the one who prayed remained on earth and called out to the saint, and the prayer was answered from heaven.

And it came to pass, when the Lord would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the Lord hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the Lord liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel. And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Lord will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the Lord hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the Lord liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho. And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Lord will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the Lord hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the Lord liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on. And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan. And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan; And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the Lord God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over. And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

Second Kings, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses one to fifteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

198 posted on 04/30/2017 4:10:51 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
You have further restricted the question to invisible created beings in Heaven from earth. Now that is a tall order.

Which is because Catholics insist that earthly communication or btwn those in the same realm is the same thing as praying to God in Heaven, which is the only prayers we see by believers in all of Scripture, and which is the issue.

The saint carried the request to heaven, the one who prayed remained on earth and called out to the saint, and the prayer was answered from heaven.

And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more:

Well now that's a new desperate attempt, for it no more shows a believer praying to someone in Heaven then the other attempts to read this into Scripture. For the simple self-evident fact is that the only request that was made, "let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me," was made while both were on earth.

. Nor is the exclamation as by Elisha as he saw Elijah ascend, "My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof" a prayer to him in Heaven.

And there is nothing about taking this request to Heaven, but instead as a prophet Elijah foretold that Elisha would receive the double portion of his spirit "if thou see me when I am taken from thee." The request was to Elijah (who had the power to bind and to loose), as one with the power to convey the Spirit, and there was no need or inference of any prayer being taken to Heaven, but only a prophetic promise. Moreover, nowhere are prayers show being actually taken to Heaven by anyone from earth.

Yet somehow you must read this like "if thou see me when I am taken from thee, i shall make request for you in Heaven and it shall be so," which reading is compelled by the need to compel Scripture to support what is nowhere teaches, despite prayer being such a basic common practice that the Holy Spirit provides approx. 200 prayers to Heaven, and despite only pagans being shown to pray to created beings in Heaven, and despite and manifesting the division btwn Heaven and earth with only God being shown able to hear and respond to all prayer from Heaven.

By desperately trying to read into Scripture what the Holy Spirit could have and would have easily exampled but does not then you insult Him!

291 posted on 05/01/2017 6:07:51 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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