Posted on 01/31/2017 5:34:13 PM PST by ebb tide
Excerpts from interview with Dave Rubin:
With Cardinal Dolan, Bishop Barron spoke about: If the only thing gay person hears from the Catholic Church is you’re “intrinsically disordered” we have a very serious problem on our hands.
(In New York City alone – there are several gay-affirming parishes that regularly sponsor “Pride” masses, organized lectures and retreats given by Catholic “gay” men and women who openly dissent from Church teachings with regards to homosexuality. How then, could anyone possibly believe that there are “gay” people who only hear they are “intrinsically disordered” from the Church – actually, this is probably the one thing they will never hear. In fact, at the 2017 LA Religious Education Congress, where Bishop Barron will also speak, “gay” Catholic Arthur Fitzmaurice, who has spoken at this event several times, has repeatedly stated that in terms of homosexuality, the language in the Catechism is “gravely evil.”)
Bishop Barron: The first thing a “gay” person, like any person should hear, you are a beloved child of God.
(That is beautiful and True, but the first thing “a gay person” should hear is that they are in reality not “a gay person.” You do that by simply not calling them “gay.”)
Bishop Barron: If that’s the way our message was coming out, we were “disordered.”
(If there has been any predominant message coming out from the Church on this issue it has emerged from these gay-affirmative parishes. For instance, an example from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles – a 2013 video series for The IN [Ignatian News] Network on “LGBT Catholics,” included an interview with Javier and Martha Plascencia who are in charge of an officially recognized LGBT outreach in the Archdiocese. Javier will speak at the 2017 LA Congress. When interviewed Martha talked about their “gay” son and the Catechism; Martha said that: “The language in the Catechism has to change. That word ‘intrinsically disordered,’ my son is not intrinsically disordered.” From Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Parish in San Francisco, we hear: “Many of our parishioners are married to their same-sex partners and have adopted children which are baptized at our parish. BTW, none of the parishioners feel that we are “intrinsically disordered” and we have told that to the Archbishop.” And just recently, a dissident priest spoke at a gay-affirmative parish in New York, his main contention: “My disagreement with the current teaching of the Roman Congregations is about what I consider to be their fundamentally flawed premise of the objectively disordered nature of the inclination.”
If the Church has been “disordered” in any sense on this issue – it’s that Bishops have allowed for this confusion and open deception to continue completely unchecked. In my 18 years as an ex-gay man, I have never once met a single person who said that a priest, or anyone for that matter – in the Church, told them that they were in any way “disordered.” In truth, the principle complaints are that priests and ministries were typically overly facilitating and gay-approving. The non-issue about language has been used by those who want to essentially change Church teaching; for example, during an interview from 2015, Fr. Donal Godfrey, S.J., the former director of campus ministry at the Jesuit-run University of San Francisco and frequent speaker at Most Holy Redeemer and various other gay-affirming parishes in San Francisco, said: “As a church we need to accept that family goes beyond traditional lines. I don’t expect the teachings to jump to acceptance in one day, it will take decades. In the meantime we need to accept people pastorally as they are and where they are. For now, this would be sufficient. Later the teachings will catch up and evolve.”
The Catholic Ministry with Lesbian and Gay Persons (CMLGP), which is the official LGBT outreach for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, is indelibly linked with this gradualist mind-set. In addition to advocating for the inclusion of “…positive language regarding LGBT Catholics, especially for same sex couples in long term relationships,” CMLGP celebrated an “indelible moment” at the 2016 LA Religious Education Congress when “…at the closing liturgy on Sunday…a gay couple and their son helped present gifts at the altar to Archbishop Jose Gomez;” they stated, this was a sign that: “Progress for LGBT Catholics is slow and happens in incremental pieces, and often includes setbacks.”)
Ruben: You’re personal feelings on this matter…I assume you felt it was the wrong decision by the Court – is that fair to say?
Bishop Barron: Yeah, no, I do, but I don’t think I want to press it much further, I think where we are right now in the States, I’ll apply the Aquinas principle, I think it would probably cause much more problem and dissension and difficulty if we kept pressing it.
Ruben: Is this one of the things where, I sense that your heart and your spiritual sense-self, maybe aren’t quite matched up, because I don’t sense judgment from you sitting here, I really don’t and I don’t sense that you want – that you would try to legislate to reverse the decision but I also sense that you can’t fully say to me well it’s okay.
Bishop Barron: Yeah that’s probably right the way you just put it there is probably right. I wouldn’t want to fully just say that’s great off you go, at the same time I wouldn’t want to get on a crusader’s tank and try to reverse that…”
(Would Bishop Barron get on a “crusader’s tank” in order to overturn Roe v. Wade? I assume he would. Why are the lives of those suffering from same sex attraction worth less? Have they not also been victimized by the culture of death?)
Oh, great. A new, local bishop reveals his cards. After hemming and hawing with “I don’t think… If that’s the way… I think where we are right now” Barron states the following: “I wouldn’t want to get on a crusader’s tank.” Whoa. Barron is revealing that he sees the issue with a false “either/or” case. Either you are cool and flexible with gay marriage or you are cruel and pigheaded. Dude, there are more options to the case and the best is tenacity. The Magisterium deserves full appreciation and defense from everyone especially a bishop.
Oh, great. Now we have a weak link in the church in here So Cal.
Bishop Barron is personable, and glib, and slick—and unreliable. He is a Universalist, for one thing.
He will say lots if good, true things, but folds up at strategic moments.
Certain folks keep telling me that there is at least one bishop in the Vatican II church that somehow holds the Catholic Faith whole and entire (aka not the Vatican II faith).
I am still looking for him.
Cdl Burke.
Nope. Cardinal Burke believes in the false teachings of Vatican II...including ecumenism and religious liberty.
this is disappointing.
This must seem a very troubling time among faithful Catholics.
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