Posted on 12/08/2016 3:48:32 AM PST by JosephJames
Amen.
Yes, it is called John 17, in Jesus prayer for the disciples.
Who decides? Christ.
What part of "This IS My Body" don't you understand?
Unless you want to discuss what the meaning of the word "is" is.
I am not sure where you are coming from. I’m not sure if you are a Catholic or a protestant.
I am a Catholic.
Thus the context of my reply was about what Lutherans believe etc, if you read this to understand the context in which my reply was given.
As I wrote in another comment, there are a great number of independent protestant groups with the same Jesus Christ, God, and Bible, but interpret many very important passages in contradictory ways, in particular about the Eucharist. Thus you say: “Unless you want to discuss what the meaning of the word “is” is.” Yes, the meaning of the word is interpreted in many contradictory ways. As I said before, Jesus knew this would happen and that’s why he left us his One Church with the Holy Spirit to guide the Church and “the gates of hell shall not prevail” (Mt 16:18).
I have a hard time understanding how a Christian does not believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist after reading chapter 6 of the Gospel of John! After many disciples left because of his teaching on the Eucharist, Jesus did not change his mind as many politicians do to not loose votes. Jesus was even willing to lose his Apostles if they were not willing to accept his teaching without compromise!
We Catholics do not have to discuss what the meaning of "is" is.
No real Lutheran does this.
>> Lutherans in fact DO believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, though they call it consubstantiation,
> No real Lutheran does this.
Oh really?
http://lsb.cph.org/samples/LSB_Sampler.pdf (p.164)
“Take, eat; this is the true body of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, given into death for your sins...
“Take, drink; this is the true blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, shed for the forgiveness of your sins.”
Then, Martin Luther’s Small Catechism: (http://bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php)
VI. The Sacrament of the Altar
As the head of the family should teach it in a simple way to his household.
What is the Sacrament of the Altar?
It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, under the bread and wine, for us Christians to eat and to drink, instituted by Christ Himself.
The ‘oh really’ is for ‘consubstantiation’. Really.
I stand corrected. Thanks.
This is so silly. Jesus didn’t place the bread on the tongues of His disciples! He tore off a piece and passed to the the disciple next to Him.
This is yet another reason I could never be Catholic, the endless silly rules and rituals that have no connection the the early Church.
Ed
Thank you for the references.
Might I say that the majority of these references, I could not enter, or “not found”!
Might I add also that when I read the article:
Pope says liturgical abuses detract from Christ;
It came to mind what happened in January of that same year, 2012. I quote a few paragraphs from the article:
“The Neocatecumenal Mass”
http://spir-food.blogspot.it/2015/02/the-neocatecumenal-mass.html
“When I tried to find this approbation of the Holy Father on the Internet, I discovered that what had happened was that the pontifical council for the laity headed by Cardinal Stanislaw Rylko had prepared the text for a decree of blanket approval of all the liturgical and extra-liturgical celebrations of the Neocatechumenal Way, to be made public January 20, 2012 on the occasion of a meeting scheduled between the Pope and the Way. The decree was redacted according to the guidelines of the congregation for divine worship, headed by Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera. The founders and leaders of the Way, Francisco “Kiko” Argüello and Carmen Hernández, were told about it and joyfully told their followers about the imminent approval. All unbeknownst to the Pope.
Benedict XVI found out about the text of the decree a few days before the meeting on January 20. He found it illogical and mistaken. He ordered that it be scrapped and rewritten according to his guidelines.
(http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350217?).
In the “Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to the Community of the Neocatechumenal Way”, January 20, 2012, Pope Benedict gave a genuine lecture – almost an ultimatum – that the celebrations in the small communities must be “regulated by the liturgical books that must be faithfully followed”, as he had ordered already in the letter of Cardinal Arinze more than 6 years earlier.
(http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2012/january/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20120120_cammino-neocatecumenale_en.html).";
As I wrote to “wbarmy”:
“Jesus did not explain everything. This is why He left us the Holy Spirit and his One Church.”
The article (The History of Communion in the Hand) explains the rest about how the Holy Spirit guided the Church about understanding more and more about the greatness of the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
In the article (The History of Communion in the Hand), one finds:
“Saint Augustine tells us: It was pride that changes angels into devils; IT IS HUMILITY that makes men as angels. Humility is the foundation of all the other virtues. The soul in which this virtue does not exist, there cannot be any other virtue except in mere appearance. Saint Bonaventure said that without humility, there is not virtue!”
One finds in the Old Testament how God instructed the Israelites to be very reverent even before the Ark of the Covenant and the Temple where Moses entered. In the Catholic Church only, there is the infinite God in the Eucharist. Non Catholic religions do not have the ordained priesthood, and thus do not have the Eucharist, Jesus substantially present as He is in heaven before which all the angels adore!
For those who have not received the fullness of the truth and the fullness of the means of sanctification, it is not surprising that the rules protecting the Eucharist, “the source and summit of the Christian life” (Vat. II: LG 11; CCC 1324), would seem like “endless silly rules and rituals”.
One also finds in the article (The History of Communion in the Hand), one finds:
“John Paul II in his last encyclical, Ecclesia de Eucharistia, left to the Church an ardent warning that sounds like a true testament: “ By giving the Eucharist the prominence it deserves, and by being careful not to diminish any of its dimensions or demands, we show that we are truly conscious of the greatness of this gift (...) THERE CAN BE NO DANGER OF EXCESS IN OUR CARE FOR THIS MYSTERY!” (N. 61). The awareness of the greatness of the Eucharistic mystery shows itself especially in the manner in which the Lord’s body is distributed and received.”
But for those who do not recognize this “pearl of great price” (Mt 13:46) I offer the words of St. Thomas Aquinas — ‘For those with faith, no evidence is necessary; for those without it, no evidence will suffice.’
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