WikiLeaks Bombshell: The Soros/Clinton/Vatican Partnership

The Remnant Newspaper ^ | November 4, 2016 | Elizabeth Yore

[Claud]

If it helps, my position is that Vatican I was pretty clear. Vatican II was a sloppy disorganized mess, but defined no doctrine, so I’m not sure how you pull doctrinal disunity out of it.

[ealgeone]

Context is your friend in understanding the Word...especially these verses.

[Claud]

Matt 16:18 for the keys, Matt 19:11-12 for celibacy, and John 20:22-23 for confession.

Translations I cited were all over the map. Pick whatever one you like, I’ll likely go straight to the Greek if there’s a disagreement anyway.

[Old Yeller]

And this is where you guys lose your marbles. Because the same Church that wrote the Catechism wrote the Scriptures.

I'm pretty sure none of the authors of the God inspired books of the Bible were Catholic.

[ealgeone]

Thank you.

Let's stay with celibacy for $500 Alex.

But let's keep it in context and pull in 19:3-12.

I don't see how you extrapolate nuns from this text.

A better verse would be 1 Corinthians 7:34. Though this verse seems to suggest an unmarried woman who may be active in the service of the Lord.

32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord. 1 Corinthians 7:32-35

She does not have to take a permanent vow of chastity or poverty as in catholicism. The verse in 1 Corinthians does allow for a change if the individual so desires.

[Claud]

He was claiming authority over everything.

No he wasn't. You have to understand the difference between immediate authority and ultimate authority.

I don't have immediate authority over my kid's furniture....he does. He decides what goes where, and I don't bother that. But I have *ultimate* authority over that furniture.....he can't sell it, destroy it, deface it without my permission.

The Church is higher than the state, so the rulers of the state must be subject to the rulers of the Church in those things that pertain to the Church. But that does NOT mean that the Pope has immediate authority over everything. He can't order a king to raise taxes or to devalue the coinage. But he can excommunicate a king for heresy.

[ealgeone]

Boniface was seeking immediate and ultimate authority. He was swinging for the fence.

[Claud]

I'm pretty sure none of the authors of the God inspired books of the Bible were Catholic.

All of them were.

Because any book that wasn't Catholic didn't get put in the Bible. There were a bunch of them: Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Thomas.

[SuziQ]

Perhaps because catholics aren't supposed to question the pope. Ya'll gotta do what he says.

Not sure where you get THAT notion, but it's completely wrong. Folks think when we say infallible, it means every utterance of the Pope. Not at all. The only 'infallible' statements are those that are agreed upon by Bishops representing Catholics all over the world, and those are on doctrine, not political or social justice matters.

For example, the Pope considers Global Warming a problem because of what he has heard from scientists. He's coming from a place of promoting stewardship for God's creation. I can agree with that, but disagree with him about any human involvement in a possible warming of the earth, and there's not a problem with that, because it has nothing to do with doctrine, or dogma.

[ealgeone]

Read up on the time period in which Boniface wrote Unam sanctam.

[Claud]

She does not have to take a permanent vow of chastity or poverty as in catholicism.

Catholicism doesn't say someone has to take a vow. It's an extra that's done voluntarily.

Just like my wife and I took a marriage vow, a nun's vow is very much the same. They take Jesus as their spouse and they want no other.

It's late and I have to get to bed, but fire away and I'll get back sometime tomorrow.

[daniel1212]

many of the Catholics I know who rarely go to Mass are voting for Trump.

And which are a minority.

The percentage of all Catholics who say they attend Mass at least once a week has dropped from 47% in 1974 to 24% in 2012. - http://www.pewforum.org/2013/03/13/strong-catholic-identity-at-a-four-decade-low-in-us/

A Catholic study reported that the percentage of U.S. adult Catholics who say they attended Mass once a week or more (i.e., those attending every week) was 24% in 2012. http://cara.georgetown.edu/caraservices/requestedchurchstats.html

37% of Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week say using contraceptives is morally wrong while 33% say it is morally acceptable and 30% say it is not a moral issue. — http://www.pewresearch.org/key-data-points/u-s-catholics-key-data-from-pew-research/#abortion

Over 75% of those who left Catholicism attended Mass at least once a week as children Pew forum, Faith in Flux (April 27, 2009) http://pewforum.org/uploadedfiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/fullreport.pdf

Perhaps it would be clearer to write it this way: most of the people I know are Catholic; 75% go to Mass every week and 25% go rarely or never; of the weekly Mass goers, 90% are voting for Trump and 10% are voting for HRC; of the rarely or never Mass-goers, 70% are voting for HRC and 30% are voting for Trump.

Catholics favor Clinton over Trump 51 to 40 percent, according to a recent survey from the Public Religion Research Institute, which co-sponsored the panel at the National Press Club.

http://religionnews.com/2016/10/31/once-predictable-catholic-voting-trends-are-shifting/

Not so fast: Catholic votes may be shifting to Trump Crux Staff November 3, 2016

Now, one top daily tracking poll is consistently putting Trump ahead among Catholics - often by double digits. As of Nov. 2, it had Trump ahead of Clinton among Catholics by 13 percentage points - 50 percent to 37 percent. The poll making this claim is not some obscure or partisan operation, but the IBD/TIPP daily tracking poll - rated by Nate Silver as the most accurate national poll of the last presidential cycle in 2012. - https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2016/11/03/not-fast-catholic-votes-may-shifting-trump/

[MayflowerMadam]

When was Vatican II? Was that in the ‘60s?

I don’t know all the ins and outs of the timing and how it impacted people — orthodoxy, liberalism, etc. All I know is that it’s so hard to understand how the Catholics I know are OK with the Dem platform, especially abortion. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

(This election season is making me crazy, BTW!) ;)

[Elsie]

Why aren’t they commenting on a crucial thread like this???

Uh...

It's only 12 minutes old?

[Elsie]

Maybe you’re a slave to your religion and put it above God.

HMMMmmm...

[Elsie]

And again, I see religion laying things on people or calling things sin that God never requires or or calls sin.

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Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

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John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

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1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

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James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

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[HarleyD]

In fairness to our Catholic friends, I wouldn’t count on any presidential polls this election cycle even among Catholics.

That being said, Catholic church doctrine is slowly moving towards the liberal gutter and emails like this should illustrate this issue. Unlike us Protestants who can simply move to a more Christ center church, what will our Catholic friends do? Will they abandoned “the one true Church” for Christ or will they remain in a heretical environment?

[iontheball]

No, I do not feel the devil’s presence in this article. I only feel a breath of fresh air. It’s time for the Church, like the U.S. government, to drain the swamp.
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My point is that the article describes an astounding level of decrepitude within the Church. Who moved these clergy to this scriptural vacuum in the first place? Yes, we should never give up hope and continue to pray for reform.

[metmom]

Yes, the *unchanging church* with it’s multitude of councils and proclamations upon which no two Catholics can agree.

And Vatican 2 didn’t change anything did it?

Except that now nobody can figure out whether there is no salvation outside the Catholic church after all.

[metmom]

Is that official church teaching or your own personal interpretation of Catholic church teaching?