Posted on 09/22/2016 10:45:55 AM PDT by fishtank
Pastor Andy Stanley says the Bible is too hard to defend
Evangelical pastor preaches that the Bible isn’t the foundation for the Christian faith
by Lita Cosner and Scott Gillis
Published: 22 September 2016 (GMT+10)
Andy Stanley has a church network of over 30,000 people in the Atlanta area, and his church was rated the fastest-growing in America in 2014 and 2015.1 Recently, he has been criticized by many evangelicals for saying that we need to take the focus off the Bible and put it on the Resurrection, because he claims that gives us a firmer foundation for our faith. As Stanley put it: “We believe Jesus rose from the dead not because the Bible says so. It is way better than that! Christianity does not hang by the thread of ‘The Bible told me so’.”2 And: “The original version [of Christianity], the pre-Bible version, was defensible, it was endurable, it was persecutable, it was fearless, it was compassionate, and it was compelling,” but he claims “it is next to impossible to defend the entire Bible”.2
(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...
You expirienced them. You didn’t cause them.
First, I think “scripture” is a man-made word and, therefore, flawed. I find it means different things to different people. I am guilty of my own form of pedantry when I get into this sort of thing, but I do it to get in and then pull out of it back to the real world.
Thing is, it has troubled me that Jesus talks about taking up your own cross - BEFORE the word had any meaning in Christendom. I still need to study that one.
But I am wholly with you that the entire bible reveals the character of God. Frankly, how he treats his enemies in the OT is part of what brought me to CI vs ECT.
Regarding John 19;36, this reminds me a bit of the “money is the root of all evil” vs “LOVE OF money is the root of all evil” thing.
That is, it says “these things” were “done” that the “scripture” was about to be fulfilled. The word “scripture” in that context is not talking about John 19:36. The word is referring to the OT text being quoted.
Same with Gal 3:8.
I’m not arguing that the NT is not scripture. Rather, I find myself bristling somewhat at the use of the word for the NT because it kind of takes the “humanness” away from the NT.
The OT is about God’s relationship with a nation.
The NT is about God’s relationship with the individual.
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If you are not part of Yisrael, by one means or another, you will not be saved.
Most of white Europeans are genetically the House of Israel, but not all of genetic Israel is part of Yisrael, the assembly of Yeshua.
Hereby know Yisrael:
They ‘confess’ Yeshua among men.
They ‘confess’ his Torah, and keep his Sabbath.
Yeshua said his yoke is ‘easy,’ and it surely is, but he also said that “few there be that will find” his narrow way.
Narrow, only because it is defined by his scriptures, not by the whim of man.
Common Churchianity is the broad path of which he spoke, that leads to destruction. Broad because it is defined by men, not by his scriptures.
Jeremiah is speaking of the assembly, which many mistakenly call “the church.” There is no church, only his ancient assembly that includes all of the faith since Adam.
All of that assembly will be, by the grace of Yehova, saved at the last trump, the event that ends Satan’s tribulation of the saints, as Paul told the Corinthians, and the Thessalonians.
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Scripture was never intended to be “interpreted,” only to be read prayerfully.
Take the words as literally as you can; the only parts that are not literal are the idiomatic Hebraisms, and the parables.
If the word needs “interpretation” to match your “theology,” it is your theology that needs reinterpretation.
The OT scriptures are mostly about how we are to live our lives.
The NT is mostly about how Yeshua and his apostles followed the OT scriptures every minute of their lives, and taught others to do so too.
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My “sabatt” is Jesus. The sabath was made for man, not man for the sabath.
I confess Jesus as my Lord and savior. He has performed bonafide mireacles in my life. I can only assume it is because I present the gospel to a broad spectrum of non-believers, some of which have very strong background in the history of both Christianity and Judaism. And they think they can “prove” it is all nonsense. Perhaps the miracles give me that edge. I could no longer not believe He is who He says He is than I could believe my wife does not exist.
I understand that you may not believe the words of the New testament. Different people have different beliefs.
As Paul said in Romans regarding the Jews, “Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.”
My “sabatt” is Jesus. The sabath was made for man, not man for the sabath.
I confess Jesus as my Lord and savior. He has performed bonafide mireacles in my life. I can only assume it is because I present the gospel to a broad spectrum of non-believers, some of which have very strong background in the history of both Christianity and Judaism. And they think they can “prove” it is all nonsense. Perhaps the miracles give me that edge. I could no longer not believe He is who He says He is than I could believe my wife does not exist.
I understand that you may not believe the words of the New testament. Different people have different beliefs.
As Paul said in Romans regarding the Jews, “Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.”
If the word needs “interpretation” to match your “theology,” it is your theology that needs reinterpretation.
Scripture was never intended to be “interpreted,” only to be read prayerfully.
Words are mans construct. They are symbols. It is necessary to interpret their meaning through context and, yes, prayer.
Scripture was never intended to be “interpreted,” only to be read prayerfully.
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The Sabbath is eternal.
Don’t be a follower of the churchians!
Read Yeshua’s words, all of them, and believe them.
Matthew 7:21 is his message to the churchians.
Matthew ch 5 covers all the bases. If the Earth is still here, Torah is too.
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The OT scriptures are mostly about how we are to live our lives.
The NT is mostly about how Yeshua and his apostles followed the OT scriptures every minute of their lives, and taught others to do so too.
We are in strong agreement on that one. I see this life as sort of like a video game. It is not really real, but eternity is. It doesn’t mean that what I do here doesn’t matter, but it doesn’t matter in the way my “natural man” (my human body) thinks it does.
To live is Christ and to die is gain.
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You’re dissimulating.
Translation is not interpretation; especially translations like the KJV that are as close to word for word as can be done.
Squirming.
Matthew 7:21 is his message to the churchians.
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You offer an irrelevant point here.
It changes nothing.
The Sabbath is eternal.
The Saturday thing was a temporary thing. Kinda like the “don’t eat crab” thing.
Irrelevant to you. Not to me. It is very relevant to me.
I’ve been arguing interpretations with Christians and non-christians for about two decades. It’s frustrating, but I always need to be respectful and know when to move on.
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There is no “New Covenant” mentioned in the scriptures.
The renewed covenant that Yeshua renewed in his sinless blood is the same covenant that was offered at Sinai, perfected.
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Interpretations change the word of God.
Deuteronomy 12 says plainly that we cannot do that.
Interpretations are where the nicolaitans get their foot in the door.
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The bible actually mentions the new covenent quite a bit, also churches and deals with them as a good thing. And, to be blunt, the “church” is not a church organization. It is the body of believers. At least, that is what God’s word says.
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Saturday is not a Biblical day, neither is Sunday.
Yehova’s days are from sunset to sunset.
His Sabbath will never change.
There is not one word in the Bible that seeks to change it.
Coming together on the first day of the week is a “Saturday evening potluck” by your parlance.
It always happened as the sun set, and would usually last for several hours. it was among other things their opportunity to bring offerings for the needy. It is forbidden to carry money on the Sabbath. It was called Havdalah.
The first day of the week is commanded to be a work day.
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