How Do We Know It’s the True Church?

Catholic Answers ^ | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

[ADSUM]

What are the twelve traits of authority, and how do they work?

First of all, it seems clear that their decision would have to be made from a historical perspective. It was not good enough to decide complex moral, social, or doctrinal issues based on popularity polls or yesterday’s newspaper. To decide difficult questions, a valid authority has to be historical.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

bike800,

according to Pope Benedict XVI, there is a solution... no authority is higher than the believer's conscience. This conscience is guided by the Holy Spirit, according to His promise.

"Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one's own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. Conscience confronts [the individual] with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church" (Pope Benedict XVI [then Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger],

Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II, ed. Vorgrimler, 1968, on Gaudium et spes, part 1,chapter 1.).

[Fantasywriter]

That is a fascinating quote, and very germane. Did Ratzinger add elsewhere that the conscience of a Christian is guided by the Holy Spirit, or did you make that addition [with which I couldn’t agree more] yourself?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

The only quote is indented (blockquote). The rest is me.

[Fantasywriter]

Your addition was invaluable. Thanks!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Thanks. I should’ve pinged you since it is your conversation.

[boatbums]

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your kind words. You have blessed my day! Thank you.

[Fantasywriter]

I was still following the thread, so no ping was necessary. I’m still intrigued by that Ratzinger quote you found, though. It sounds like he and the Evangelicals are on the same page—interestingly enough. I wonder how much exposure this quote gets. Be interesting to find out...

[Fantasywriter]

You’re more than welcome—thanks for all you do.

[terycarl]

How one can be a conservative thinker and believe that all changes subsequent to Vatican II are all well and good may boggle some minds.

I don't like most of them, however, most of them were merely in rubrics, cosmetic, whatever....not in dogma nor anything of real consequence.

I certainly wish they hadn't done it, but they did. Catholics in the future will only recognize the Mass in the vernacular, I grew up in the Latin church and loved it....was an altar boy and can say et cum spiritu tuo and Deo Gratsias...I thing that female altar servers have caused far fewer boys to have vocations and that is sad.

I don't like the priest facing the congregation and neither do either of our parish priests, but that's the way it is.

[terycarl]

You realize, I hope, that Luther is not the "Protestant" pope and that he was but one of many involved in the Reformation, don't you?/i>

That would be "revolution" not reformation. Reformation takes place WITHIN and revolution denies the original and seeks a substitute. America did not have a reformation with England....we had a revolution.

[terycarl]

Religious liberty, Vatican II to present: “This Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom... The Council further declares that the right to religious freedom has its foundation in the very dignity of the human person, as this dignity is known through the revealed Word of God and by reason itself. This right of the human person to religious freedom is to be recognized in the constitutional law whereby society is governed; thus it is to become a civil right.” - Vatican II

That sounds to me like a declaration of religious freedom from civil authority as we have in the United States, not the right to self-declaration as to what religion is. The protestant revolution took care of that!

[terycarl]

How many denominations are there now Much fewer than than the number of private Catholic belief systems

nonsense

[Salvation]

**I thing that female altar servers have caused far fewer boys to have vocations and that is sad.**

You are totally right here and I think this needs to be pointed out the every priest.

Where there are boys only serving Mass, and 24-7 Adoration going on, vocations abound amazingly.

[Salvation]

There are only 22 rites of the Catholic Mass.

I wonder what ampu is talking about??

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“nonsense

TC, I estimate that the MAJORITY of Roman Catholics pick and choose or ignore whatever they wish. Each has custom made his own denomination. It vastly outnumbers non-Catholic denominations

Heck, in some countries, the MAJORITY of Roman Catholics don’t even attend a single church service during the year.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“There are only 22 rites of the Catholic Mass.

I wonder what ampu is talking about??”

Explained in previous post.

[boatbums]

Wrong again. It WAS a Reformation and it was sorely needed. Still is!

[piusv]

No, it is a complete and blatant contradiction of pre-Vatican II theology on religious freedom. Read them again....this time take off the post Vatican II rose colored glasses.

[HomerBohn]

...not in dogma nor anything of real consequence.

The consequence will be for those called to account for their acquiescence.

Don't you truly believe that this new transformation is the creation of a new religion? You admit you feel uncomfortable amidst the sacreligious ceremony.

[terycarl]

Wrong again. It WAS a Reformation and it was sorely needed. Still is!

You are in error as usual. If I am a member of a club, Elks for instance, and am dissatisfied with something they do, I would make suggestions at a lodge meeting as to my opinion and seek to make changes in their policy.....If I start the reindeer club to protest the Elks rituals, I have REVOLTED, not reformed.