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To: SubMareener
You conclude: “that can only be true if spirit baptism happens at conversion”. The scriptures say no such thing.

If Paul was speaking to believers (which he was), and he said they had all been baptized by the spirit (and he did) ... then OF NECESSITY that has to happen at conversion ... otherwise there may have been some who were not baptized into Christ yet ... i.e. your erroneous position.

If it happens to ALL ... then the only time that can be is initial conversion.

Paul refutes your position, where some Christians are indwelt and some others are not. Further, your position undermines the essential unity of the church. There is no have and have nots in the church of Christ. We all have been made to drink of one Spirit. To suggest otherwise is to place direct division into the church. If you view the church as those who have the spirit and those who don't ... you really do not understand conversion.

There is no transition between the Old Testament and the New Testament!

Of course there is ... the fundamental difference between Gods people in the OT and the NT is the indwelling of the HS. The Mosaic covenant did not guarantee regeneration ... the New Covenant does ... it is the entrance requirement for the covenant.

There are NO unregenerate believers in Christ church ... regeneration is how you become a member of His body.

Everything was prophesied in Old Testament

Show me the OT prophecy where the church is predicted. This will tell a lot about the Biblical hermeneutic you are applying to the text.

The “New Testament” is more like a “Renewed Covenant” in which Jesus tried to reset mankind to follow the core Commandments of the Old Testament.

Nonsense ... Jer. 31:31 and Ezekiel 36 describe a NEW covenant, not a renewed covenant ... it is not like the Old covenant ... because regeneration was not guaranteed under the old covenant ... it is under the new.

After you go through the Bible a dozen times of so, you will see this pattern emerge.

Only if you are predisposed to look for it ...

25 posted on 07/19/2016 12:37:08 PM PDT by dartuser
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To: dartuser

Show me the OT prophecy where the church is predicted. This will tell a lot about the Biblical hermeneutic you are applying to the text.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
That is relatively easy to do if you have eyes to see or ears to hear.

First there is the first promise to Abram:
Genesis 12
1 Now the LORD had said to Abram: “Get out of your country,
From your family And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Nelson, Thomas. Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 9). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

So YHWH (that is the name translated LORD here) promises a blessing to “all the families of the earth”. That includes the “family” you call the church.

Now specifically as to the Messiah (the Elect One):

Isaiah 42
1 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Nelson, Thomas. Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 703). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

Again, more specifically:

Isaiah 42
6 “I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles,

Nelson, Thomas. Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 703). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

Just in case you missed it the first two times, he reiterates in
Isaiah 49
6 Indeed He says,
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

Nelson, Thomas. Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 712). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

As to the timing of the Church Age, look at
Daniel’s recording of the prophecy of the
seventy weeks of years. The first seven and sixty-two weeks
accounted for Jesus’ first coming.
Then there is a final week for completing YHWH work with Israel.

While not specified by Gabriel, the gap between the first 69 weeks and the 70th week is covered by the length of the final diaspora. The final destruction of the Temple and the final Diaspora that determine the time of the Church Age, is covered in Hosea 6:1-2. To understand this you have to remember the “one day is a thousand years” rule.

Be a Berean! Search the Scriptures! Let the Holy Spirit guide you to the Truth!


32 posted on 07/19/2016 7:50:40 PM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR!e)
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