Posted on 04/04/2016 6:23:37 AM PDT by marshmallow
Cities across Poland are bracing themselves for mass demonstrations against the country's right-wing government, after its prime minister admitted she favoured a total ban on abortion, even in the instance of rape or incest.
Roman Catholic churches in the country are also participating in a campaign against the procedure, with priests reading a letter from a bishops' conference that calls for the last of Poland's already strictly limited abortion rights to be removed. Pro-choice campaigners say this is part of a concerted build-up to introducing legislation in the country's parliament.
Speaking to public radio earlier in the week, Szydlo was asked about whether the issue would reach parliament. She said: "Every MP will vote in line with their own conscience. At the moment I can not talk about the bill, because this bill does not yet exist. As for my opinion, yes, I support this initiative."
Tak dla Kobiet, a pro-choice pressure group, is helping organise protests in at least 15 Polish cities, and has said it expects more than 10,000 people to show up at the Sejm, the parliament building in Warsaw. It claims "people are outraged" that the Catholic Church seems to be launching a fresh grab for influence.
In a statement written in English, the group said: "The current law, misleadingly called a compromise, was passed in the early nineties to gain political support from the Catholic Church. The new legislative project has full support from the Catholic Church, whose priests are obliged to read a special letter of support during mass tomorrow. Once again, women will be denied basic rights to their bodies, pushed to seek dangerous methods to terminate unwanted pregnancies."
(Excerpt) Read more at ibtimes.co.uk ...
All the crap going on today with terrorism, poverty, and these people act like killing kids is the most important thing in the world. I don’t know, maybe I’m naive, but are abortions something women need to get on a monthly basis or they will die?
Part of the problem “might” be the melding of the ideas of church and state function; while specifically sacerdotal functions have been withdrawn from the state and brought wholly within church authority, charity notably hasn’t.
So do we have a church demanding a ban for which it isn’t likewise offering charitable support to the mothers affected by the ban, as a matter of fact, first-priority charitable support because of the magnitude of what is at stake? I don’t know what is going on in Poland here, but IM maybe not very humble O, virtue must be holistic.
Be careful of what you wish for Ruthie.
Because the Catholic Church is not in the business of providing charity, right?
They do, and quite a lot. I’d hope that (and this goes for evangelical churches too) they would tailor it according to the importance of the issue involved. Evangelism would take the top slot, followed by pro-life, followed by other acts of mercy, etc.
“So do we have a church demanding a ban for which it isn’t likewise offering charitable support to the mothers affected by the ban...”
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait. First, even if the Church isn’t providing “charitable support” specifically designed or designated for mothers who are planning on abortion, abortion is still murder and should be opposed. Period. Secondly, the Church has always helped mothers and children in need. The vast majority of women who have abortions are NOT having them out of any real financial “need” (i.e. severe financial distress). Young, unmarried women have abortions because they didn’t mean to get pregnant when they had sex with their boyfriends or some stranger. Married women have abortions because they either “aren’t ready” for children (which means they don’t understand what marriage is for) or because they “already have children” or because it “will hurt their career”. I am putting aside “health” reasons. All of these reasons are invalid in any case. Murder is murder.
Opposing something without grace is asking for it to blow up in your face (rhyme intended). Period.
And your own taunting tag proves you are assaulting without grace. Don’t be surprised if a movement on this basis simply loses. Had we insisted on putting slave owners on kidnapping trial, we probably would still have slavery today.
“Opposing something without grace is asking for it to blow up in your face (rhyme intended). Period.”
How is opposing the murder of children “something without grace”? You’re not making sense.
There is a manner of doing things that is good and a manner of doing things that is bad.
You believe in going out and spraying machine gun fire on every place that has a PP shingle on it, for instance?
Good luck with the consequences, which God Himself built into the world.
And what is more, you ignore soul murder, which Jesus actually said is worse.
And you have excused horrible things, like the Inquisition, based on imaginary soul murder, while ignoring real soul murders (think about what it did to the credibility of the church as minister of salvation, for example).
“And your own taunting tag proves you are assaulting without grace.”
As opposed to “assaulting with grace”? Honestly, it’s like you’re babbling nonsensically. I didn’t pick the tagline for you, but you’re showing why it was appropriate.
“Don’t be surprised if a movement on this basis simply loses.”
On “this basis”? The intrinsic value of human life is a pretty good basis. And that’s what this is about.
“Had we insisted on putting slave owners on kidnapping trial, we probably would still have slavery today.”
The one would have nothing to do with the other (i.e. putting slave owners on trial is not about kidnapping nor is it about having slavery today). The prime minister of Poland does not believe in MURDERING CHILDREN. You seem to be trying to rationalize why it must be okay to MURDER CHILDREN with your “slave owners” comment. That makes no sense. If the USA passed a law in 1861 outlawing slavery and someone kept slaves anyway, then he should have been tried. Period. Slavery is immoral. The only excuse slave owners had was it was something they had always known. . . and that’s not good enough. In any case, MURDERING CHILDREN is ALWAYS WRONG.
If all else fails, you resort to circular argument. Not all means of addressing all ills attract the divine blessing.
I don’t believe you are being honest. I believe you are slipping in lies.
Oh, go Google up Emancipation Proclamation. Can’t you even get your claimed salient facts right?
If you save bodies but murder souls, are you not committing a worse evil than the one you claim to prevent?
This studied disdain of yours for the plight of women with superficial moralizing that assumes they were all brought up good and proper like you seem to claim you were... bespeaks soul murder.
Take care of the hard heart problem of women... and the preborn infanticide problem will be on the run. You don’t do that by displaying hard hearts towards them, you only teach them hard hearts.
“And you have excused horrible things, like the Inquisition,”
Nope. It wasn’t so horrible and I made no excuses.
” based on imaginary soul murder,”
No such thing. That is an allusion to the destruction of a person’s relationship with God meaning he goes to hell forever. And compared to that - an eternity in hell - a person’s experience with the inquisition, no matter how bad, pales in comparison.
“while ignoring real soul murders (think about what it did to the credibility of the church as minister of salvation, for example).”
Essentially nothing. Did the slaughter of the people in the camp damage Moses’ credibility? How about Judaism’s? Nope. Not even remotely.
“And what is more, you ignore soul murder, which Jesus actually said is worse.”
I don’t ignore it. Eternity in hell is EXACTLY WHY I OPPOSE MURDERING CHILDREN. You apparently think MURDERING CHILDREN is okay. I don’t.
“There is a manner of doing things that is good and a manner of doing things that is bad.”
I don’t think you have the ability to judge the good from the bad if you’re not opposed to MURDERING CHILDREN.
“You believe in going out and spraying machine gun fire on every place that has a PP shingle on it, for instance?”
No. But I do sincerely hope that every Planned Parenthood murder clinic is shuttered forever. I think using machine guns on buildings is wasteful of bullets. After they are closed the Planned Parenthood murder houses should be torn down or converted into museums of the horrors they used to perform - like has happened to Nazi death camps since they served the same murderous purpose.
“Good luck with the consequences, which God Himself built into the world.”
More babies born rather than murdered. I can easily live with that consequence. Can you live with it?
“If you save bodies but murder souls, are you not committing a worse evil than the one you claim to prevent?”
Persons. People are persons. They are not just bodies. Nor are they just souls.
“This studied disdain of yours for the plight of women with superficial moralizing that assumes they were all brought up good and proper like you seem to claim you were... bespeaks soul murder.”
I have disdain for MURDER. Apparently you’re okay with MURDERING CHILDREN. I’m not. God isn’t either. That’s not “superficial moralizing”. That’s just the truth.
“Take care of the hard heart problem of women... and the preborn infanticide problem will be on the run.”
And stand by and do nothing while millions of CHILDREN ARE MURDERED? So you would work on the Nazis’ hearts and not try to stop the Holocaust, right? Do you see how ridiculously stupid your belief is?
“You don’t do that by displaying hard hearts towards them, you only teach them hard hearts.”
Opposing the MURDER OF CHILDREN is not being hard hearted.
“Oh, go Google up Emancipation Proclamation. Can’t you even get your claimed salient facts right?”
Oh, my gosh. Did you fail 6th grade history? The EP did not make slavery illegal. It freed slaves in CONFEDERATE TERRITORIES. Not all slaves were in Confederate states. Delaware and West Virginia, for instance, were with the North and the EP didn’t affect or effect them at all. Seriously, how do you not know this??? Clearly, YOU need to google the Emancipation Proclamation.
“I don’t believe you are being honest.”
Your opinion is completely inconsequential.
“I believe you are slipping in lies.”
Again, your opinion is completely inconsequential.
“If all else fails, you resort to circular argument.”
That’s false, but if it were true then that would still mean only one of us was using any argument at all.
“Not all means of addressing all ills attract the divine blessing.”
Allowing the MURDER OF CHILDREN is not going to “attract the divine blessing.” You can make all the excuses for MURDERING CHILDREN you want, but God won’t approve of your efforts.
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