Italy's 'Bleeding Thorn' Marks the Coincidence of Good Friday, Annunciation

Catholic News Agency ^ | 3/25/16

[marshmallow]

Andria, Italy, Mar 25, 2016 / 06:38 pm (CNA).- A single thorn held to have been taken from Christ's crown of thorns that traditionally 'bleeds' each time that Good Friday falls on March 25, has done so again this year.

Bishop Raffaele Calabro, Bishop Emeritus of Andria in Italy's Apulia region, confirmed today that the thorn has bled.

"The miracle has started, the wonder is underway," Bishop Calabro stated.

The thorn has been kept in a reliquary in Andria's cathedral since 1308.

A commission who observed the miracle confirmed the formation of three spherical formations or "gems" on the thorn and that "on the base of the thorn is the residue of the preceding miracle of 2005, renewing."

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Should be able to extract the DNA and if true, should hold the Jewish markers. If not, it is interesting, but not a miracle that reproduces Christ’s blood.

[Terry L Smith]

And to think the Catholics burned so-called
witches at the stake, for holding in reverence
artifacts of their faith!

Isn’t it so-called idolatry, either way?

[Talisker]

Should be able to extract the DNA and if true, should hold the Jewish markers. If not, it is interesting, but not a miracle that reproduces Christ’s blood.

LOL, you're a tough audience. A thorn that bleeds every time Good Friday falls on March 25 is more than merely interesting, it's actually astounding, no matter how you interpret it.

[TroutStalker]

Video?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Sure. But prove its blood, or it ain’t bleedin’

[Mrs. Don-o]

Look up
Witch-Hunt#Middle_Ages -— good article on witch burning -— and you will see that historically the Catholic Church opposed the prosecution of witches on the grounds that witches do not exist, therefore advocating the suppression of witches is in itself superstition.

[Mrs. Don-o]

BTW, belief in miracles and honor given to God for His marvelous deeds, is not idolatry. In the OT, the Hebrew people venerated miraculous objects, for instance those which they preserved in the Ark of the Covenant. And in the NT it’s recorded that people used towels and napkins which had been touched by Apostles, to cure the sick.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

In the OT, the Hebrew people venerated miraculous objects, for instance those which they preserved in the Ark of the Covenant.

The items in the Ark of the Covenant preserved the evidence of the Covenant God made with the Nation and they were not there to be venerated.

The two stone tablets, on which God wrote the Law for His people.
The staff of Aaron, as a testimony of rebelliousness of that broken Law, but which had sprouted leaves and fruit, as a testimony to the continuance.
Manna, a symbol of God's grace to a rebellious people.

The LORD said to Moses, "Put back Aaron's staff in front of the ark of the covenant law, to be kept as a sign to the rebellious. This will put an end to their grumbling against me, so that they will not die."

Numbers 17:10

The Israelis did not venerate the staff. They place it into the Ark, before the presence of God, as a sign of the rebelliousness of the people. When a priest fulfilled the command to place blood on the top of the Ark, it covered up their sin.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

And in the NT it’s recorded that people used towels and napkins which had been touched by Apostles, to cure the sick.

Yet it does not say they venerated the objects, nor saved them.

"so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them. Acts 19:12

[Lazamataz]

This stuff is nuts. You know, it’s okay to believe in Jesus Christ without making up crazy tales. (not directed at you, but at the Catholics)

[Mrs. Don-o]

Whhat doe you think “venerate” means?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Wrong question, Mrs. D-O.

They were not venerating. They were being obedient.

In regards to relics, best to follow the Apostle John's inspired words:

"Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

[Mrs. Don-o]

But for us to understand each other, you have to tell me what you mean by “venerate.”

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"But for us to understand each other, you have to tell me what you mean by “venerate.”

Obedience to God's command is not equal to veneration of objects. Really, that is all that it is necessary to know.

Here is the Latin root of venerated. I copied and pasted from Dictionary.com. (My Latin is not very good. Greek, OK. English, OK. French, gone. Italian, mediocre. Spanish, one notch above Italian!)

"Latin venerātus, past participle of venerārī to solicit the goodwill of (a god), worship, revere, verbal derivative of vener-, stem of venus, presumably in its original sense “desire”; see Venus)

It is clear the Israelis were not venerating the objects in the ark. Nor were those who brought cloths back to try to heal others.

[Ann Archy]

You are ignorant.....the Catholic Church did no such thing. Go away.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The definition you posted indicated a range across three meanings. They were:

• (def. 1) to solicit the good will (of god)
• (def. 2) to worship
• (def. 3) to revere.

So in the definition you offered, there was a range from what is a proper to a (g)God, and what is proper to an honored person, place, or thing.

It's important to know this, because if I say I revere my old High School Algebra teacher, it does not mean I think she is a divinity. If I revere the flag of the United States of America, it does not mean I adore it. If I revere the Constitution, it does not mean I have made it into an idol.

So, properly distinguishing between these meanings, I would say it is always wrong to adore a person or an object, it is not wrong to revere them.

That was just what was done in respect to the Ark of the Covenant.

• It was placed in what was believed to be the most sacred place n earth: in the innermost part of the Temple.
• The altar of incense was placed before it.
• It was anointed with blessed oils.
• It was placed under the guardianship and care of the Levitical priesthood.
• handling it casually or carelessly was considered sacrilegious
• only a consecrated man (like Eleazar) could have charge of the Ark
• people carried it in a festal procession, and sang and danced before it
• Joshua and the elders of Israel prostrated before the Ark.

I could multiply these examples, but you get the idea.

The respect and reverence shown o the Ark of the Covenant was in every case cited above pleasing to God, and in some of those cases was specifically done at His direction.

This is not idolatry or adoration of a false God.

It is (per the definition you cited) veneration, def. 3.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Mrs. D,

You wrote...

It was placed in what was believed to be the most sacred place n earth: in the innermost part of the Temple. The altar of incense was placed before it. It was anointed with blessed oils. It was placed under the guardianship and care of the Levitical priesthood. handling it casually or carelessly was considered sacrilegious only a consecrated man (like Eleazar) could have charge of the Ark people carried it in a festal procession, and sang and danced before it Joshua and the elders of Israel prostrated before the Ark.

You are overlooking that they did not initiate any of this. God commanded it. All of it. They obeyed God.

This in no way has anything to do with the idolization of purported relics.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Actually, in some of the instances I listed, it says God commanded the acts of veneration and respect, and in other instances it doesn't say that He explicitly commanded it, but the implication is that He approved and permitted it.

My point is the same, and even stronger if God DID command it. He commanded the veneration of holy objects.

This demonstrates that there is a difference between veneration and idolatry.

Veneration is not "the idolization of" persons, places or objects. It is showing high respect for things associated with God's mighty works, or things consecrated to God. If you put flowers on a casket or at a gravesite, you are venerating the dead. There is nothing wrong with that. The flowers were not commanded by God, but nevertheless placing them as a funerary custom is an almost universal Christian practice, pleasing to Him because it shows our reverence toward His gift of life.

It's veneration. Not idolatry.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Couldn't disagree more. The Scriptures do not demonstrate your claim.

Actually, in some of the instances I listed, it says God commanded the acts of veneration and respect, and in other instances it doesn't say that He explicitly commanded it, but the implication is that He approved and permitted it.

They were not venerating objects. They were worshiping GOD. He was present in the Ark of the Covenant.

My point is the same, and even stronger if God DID command it. He commanded the veneration of holy objects.

No. Not objects. Object lessons. Not venerated. Worship of God Himself because of the object lessons.

This demonstrates that there is a difference between veneration and idolatry.

There may be a difference at times. This does not demonstrate it.

Veneration is not "the idolization of" persons, places or objects.

Sometimes it is.

If you put flowers on a casket or at a gravesite, you are venerating the dead. There is nothing wrong with that.

No one pretends they are God. It is done out of respect or love (or baser motives). So not applicable.

The flowers were not commanded by God, but nevertheless placing them as a funerary custom is an almost universal Christian practice, pleasing to Him because it shows our reverence toward His gift of life.

We have no idea if flowers on a grave are pleasing to God. This is conjecture. Nor is there equivalence between placing flowers on a grave and substituting fondling bones and thorns for worshiping God himself.

EVERY object, including those commanded by God, can be idolized. The Bronze Serpent is a prime example.

He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was called Nehushtan.) 2 Kings 18:4

Still happens today.