This is pretty humorous; the Catholic Church, for some reason, does not believe that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is efficacious either; I do -- he paid the price for my sins; I'm saved by grace through faith. Catholics, on the other hand, are taught that you have to do more.... so, personally, I believe the issue here is what you, if you are Catholic, believe: is Christ's death enough? And, if so, why must works be added to this? Works are a natural outgrowth of salvation -- an evidence of it -- they do not aid in obtaining or securing it! If Christ's sacrificial death on the cross is enough, why do Catholics believe in Purgatory -- a final "purging'? Wasn't Christ's death and resurrection enough?
You can attempt to explain it many ways; I have an issue that the term implies that Mary bore GOD. She didn't. She bore Jesus. Jesus is God incarnate. God has no beginning and no end. I have no issue with professing the Trinity -- regardless of your belief, I am a Christian. However, it is the Catholic faith that raises Mary to a level that at best borders on idolatry and at worst IS idolatry. The CCC teaches that Mary is a "mediatrix" completely in defiance of Scripture, much less the very words of Christ himself! I have yet to see you explain this! The same entry indicates that Mary has a saving office. She does not. She cannot save; if she could have saved, there would have been no need for God to send his Son into this world, would he? Again, blasphemy taught as doctrine.
You are focused on the Mother of God issue so tightly that for some reason, you're not seeing why the sources I've listed for you that cause such consternation. CCC 969 is wrong; Mary does nothing to save, to mediate or to benefit. God's Word proves it to be a lie, yet you do not answer as to why it is not a lie. Why not? Does Mother Church trump God himself?
Hoss
Unless you believe in the incarnation, but that means that Mary is the Mother of God because God could not die for sins unless he first assumed human flesh and became both fully man while being fully God.
Catholics, on the other hand, are taught that you have to do more.... so, personally, I believe the issue here is what you, if you are Catholic, believe: is Christ's death enough? Catholics, on the other hand, are taught that you have to do more.... so, personally, I believe the issue here is what you, if you are Catholic, believe: is Christ's death enough?
Nice attempt at distraction. Can't stay on point?
You can attempt to explain it many ways; I have an issue that the term implies that Mary bore GOD. She didn't. She bore Jesus. Jesus is God incarnate. God has no beginning and no end.
If Jesus is incarnate that means that Mary is the Mother of God. Its actually less scandalous than saying God died on an instrument of torture. But that is precisely what the incarnation means. Once again the Motherhood of Mary does not mean authorship of the Godhead. It means that a communicable reality applies to the incarnation. the same reality that applies for the efficacy of the sacrifice at Calvary.
However, it is the Catholic faith that raises Mary to a level that at best borders on idolatry and at worst IS idolatry.
Not unless a person is unaware that they are using misshapen definitions of mother, ect not found in nature.
You are focused on the Mother of God issue so tightly that for some reason, you're not seeing why the sources I've listed for you that cause such consternation.
Good dialogue stays on point. It does not meander about throwing in irrelevant questions until some of the most basic ones are answered. To do algebra you first must do addition and subtraction at the least.
But also, the reason subjects should not deviate is precisely because its a great way to get away from an conclusive discussion.
Jesus incarnation means that Mary is the Mother of God, that is the sole basis for discussion right now. I'm not jumping into areas which cannot even be discussed properly unless one accepts that God became man in order to die for our sins and that his coming as man necessarily entails that he had to have a mother.