more than I'll ever need THAT!
Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer
Thanks. Which post?
Whoops it didn’t post No its not necessary for sLvation. However it is a truth. I really don’t get the Protestant aversion to honoring the Mother of Jesus. Heck I respect and pay deference to my friends mothers out of respect. I certainly don’t talk sh*t about them and sometimes hang out with them. Non-protestant Christians know that death cannot separate the Christian Community because Jesus conquered it. Just like you ask your mom to pray for you we ask Mary (the first Christian by the way) to pray for us. After all what Mary asks of her son, Jesus is quite willing to do, just ask the guests at the wedding at Canaa.
Also don’t respond with “Catholics worship Mary” or think she is necessary for salvation which is false. (Regardless Why would she lead anyone away from her Son?) If you want to argue first read the actual Catechism of the Church and refute it. It’s available online. Google it.
Don’t go quoting some ex disgruntled ex catholic or snake charming West Virginia hick or some malnourished 16th Century Northern European religious malcontent.
You - Catholic school, first grade...53+53 is 106....not 153.
.
You are wrong, but so was I. Mine was an arithmetic error (and Yes, I could have used help.) I was counting "HMs" for 3 Rosaries. I said 2. I'm sincerely sorry. I said 2, not 3.
Two Rosaries deposit 103 "Hail Marys" in your account.
Three Rosaries gets you to 153.
Your error is a dangerous PROCESS ERROR and that's what worries me: If you're saying the Rosary incorrectly by throwing in extra "preliminary" Hail Marys (for Faith, Hope, and Charity), are you going to go to hell? I hope not. You're entertaining.
In my post, I also said, "Don't ask me, I don't make the rules!
You appear to be saying three UNNECESSARY prayers with each mystery. Are you trying to get extra credit but unknowingly risking your eternal destiny?
This is a serious matter.
There are 153 Hail Mary's in a 15 decade Rosary, 53 in a 5 decade Rosary. I was talking about the full monty, when I said 153 Hail jobs.
Gird yourself.
How many mysteries do you hold to? Do you embrace the Luminous mysteries?
Do you mind telling me your best time for a single Hail? I can say the prayer in 6.65 seconds.
Are you in the "...the Lord is with you" camp are are you an "...our Lord is with you" kinda guy?
Finally, when you've been a Freeper as long as I, then you'll be much wiser.
P.S. That's about a week from now. ;^)
But by that time the "standard" changes... you should be accustomed to changing standards by now.
REMEMBER: With the "Holy Roman Catholic Church" - It's ALL ABOUT THE PROCESS. Please "stay within the lines!" It's your only hope.
more than I'll ever need THAT!
If it is not necessary for salvation, then why criticize those who don’t believe, or frankly, don’t see the need for the additional veneration of her?
I have no problem with the term Theotokos (God-bearer) for Mary, and mother of Jesus is also an accurate title for her.
PS: I’m not sure why you needed to use a scatological term to get your point across.
I don’t but as you can see from the Title of this thread it was hijacked by them, because the mention of Mary gets there panties all up in a bunch. Unlike Protestantism, which defines itself by how uncatholic they are, Catholics could care less what Protestants believe, other than of course being aware that it’s heretical, which just means not in accord with orthodoxy.
But is it heresy to not venerate Mary, and if so why, since is it not a salvation issue?
I am part of the catholic Church.
"Mentioning Mary" doesn't bother me a bit. What the "Holy Roman Catholic Church" does with her DOES bother me and here's why:
The "HRCC" is leading people to HELL and Mary worship is part of Satan's plot!
Sure! That bothers me and it bothers God.
Allright there smart guy
No veneration is an act. Contumacoous refusal while aware that she is due it is another matter. Here is a good explanation:
“In every age the Church has drawn a fundamental distinction (which, on account of its importance, should never be overlooked) between formal and merely material heretics, and her penal legislation was directed solely against the former category. As the open and obstinate rebellion of a Catholic against the Divinely instituted teaching authority of the Church, formal heresy still remains one of the most grievous sins. Material heresy on the other hand, i.e. an error in faith entertained undesignedly and unconsciously, is in itself neither sinful nor punishable, except where the error is itself inexcusable. In excusable error are all who possess subjectively the firm and honest conviction that they have the true faith of Christ, thus including the vast majority of non-Catholics, who were born and educated in their particular form of belief”
No veneration is an act. Contumacoous refusal while aware that she is due it is another matter. Here is a good explanation:
“In every age the Church has drawn a fundamental distinction (which, on account of its importance, should never be overlooked) between formal and merely material heretics, and her penal legislation was directed solely against the former category. As the open and obstinate rebellion of a Catholic against the Divinely instituted teaching authority of the Church, formal heresy still remains one of the most grievous sins. Material heresy on the other hand, i.e. an error in faith entertained undesignedly and unconsciously, is in itself neither sinful nor punishable, except where the error is itself inexcusable. In excusable error are all who possess subjectively the firm and honest conviction that they have the true faith of Christ, thus including the vast majority of non-Catholics, who were born and educated in their particular form of belief”
Full Definition of progenitor 1a : an ancestor in the direct line : forefather
b : a biologically ancestral form2
: precursor, originator
Personally, I do not assign any DNA connection directly from Mary, the Mother of Jesus, to the embryonic being Who gestated in her womb. As such she is the biological surrogate to a conceptus COMPLETELY formed by God The Father and placed in Mary's womb by The Holy Spirit.
If one assigns half the chromosomes of Jesus to a gamete from Mary, she is more than a surrogate Mother. If one assigns no gamete chromosome origins to Mary then she is The surrogate Mother of Jesus ... and here's the part catholic boneheads will just thrill over ... if Mary is solely a surrogate to the God fashioned embryonic Jesus, she is the surrogate mother of the physical human body Jesus occupied during His earthly sojourn and is due no other honor than the blessed Mother of Jesus, The Jesus Who was and IS God with us.
The religion of catholiciism, as different from Christianity, seeks to assign to the Mother of Jesus titles and roles which God did not assign in His Word, The Bible. To do this sleight of hand the catholic hierarchy plays conflation games and duplicitous definition games. That's just plain dishonest when such titles and roles are not found anywhere in The Word of God, The Bible.
It is curious that catholics insist we 'prots' acknowledge that it is the Catholic Church (not the ekklesia of Jesus origins, begun in the profession of faith by Peter) which brought us all The Bible as we have it today, yet they cannot find even one clear passage which makes assignment of the titles the religion of modern catholiciism assigns to their Mary in adoration.
When Mary and her other children came to the house where Jesus was teaching and stood outside asking for an audience, it is revealing to see how Jesus responded. Had Mary been a real progenitor to Jesus as God, He would by Jewish law been obliged to honor her request. He, however, stated tot he attending crowd, who is my Mother, etc. when Jesus was dying in body on the Cross, since none of his brothers were there present with His Mother, He gave her care over to a disciple.
It was only AFTER the Resurrection that the brothers of Jesus fully believed in His Messiah identity! And why not, they knew Him as the oldest brother in the family and had even tried to persuade Him to stop with the making unrest among the people being ruled by Rome. After the Resurrection they knew without any doubt that He was much more than just a religious zealot who was their oldest brother ... He was God with them! And their lives thereafter reflect their certainty. Had James not been the brother of Jesus, I doubt the body of Jewish believers would have placed him as their leader in Jerusalem, since the Sanhedrin was hell-bent to persecute the Jewish zealotry. But James was a rock of faithfulness, and even the acknowledged leader when the Council in Acts takes place determining what would be the best way to relate with the gentiles coming to Christ.
Removing the family connection between Jesus and James as having the same Mother seems a foolish way to try and promote false titles and roles for their Mother. The Blessed Mother of Jesus was more than just the Mother of Jesus, she was the Mother of a couple of the pillars of Christian ekklesia!
22. The plan adopted by the three persons of the Blessed Trinity in the Incarnation, the first coming of Jesus Christ, is adhered to each day in an invisible manner throughout the Church and they will pursue it to the end of time until the last coming of Jesus Christ.
23. God the Father gathered all the waters together and called them the seas (maria). He gathered all his graces together and called them Mary (Maria). The great God has a treasury or storehouse full of riches in which he has enclosed all that is beautiful, resplendent, rare, and precious, even his own Son. This immense treasury is none other than Mary whom the saints call the "treasury of the Lord". From her fullness all men are made rich.
Interesting. If it is not too much trouble, will you provide a link or at least the name of the source of the quote? Thank you.
Oh?
Upon what evidence do you base this guesstimation?
Of COURSE not!
But...
...it IS necessary for her assumed GOD-like powers the Roman Ctholic Church asserts that she processes.
One last note on the surrogacy of Mary: had God used a gamete from Mary to fashion the embryonic being of Jesus, that would have connected Mary to God the Holy Spirit in a way that would violate the marriage The Angel told Joseph to go ahead and finish rather than ‘putting her away’. Had half the chromosomes of Jesus come directly from His Mother, she would be an adulterer to finish the marriage to Jospeh because in catholic reasoning her first spouse IS still alive when she completes her marriage to Joseph.
You lost me at “the Religion of Catholicism as opposed to Christianity”
Meant to ping you folks tot he additional thought ...
When/if you are no longer lost, you will get the differentiation.
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