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Mary, Mother of God
The Sacred Page ^ | December 29, 2015

Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer

January 1 is the Solemnity (Holy Day) of Mary, Mother of God.  To call Mary the “Mother of God” must not be understood as a claim for Mary’s motherhood of divinity itself, but in the sense that Mary was mother of Jesus, who is truly God.  The Council of Ephesus in 431—long before the schisms with the Eastern churches and the Protestants—proclaimed “Mother of God” a theologically correct title for Mary. 


So far from being a cause of division, the common confession of Mary as “Mother of God” should unite all Christians, and distinguish Christian orthodoxy from various confusions of it, such as Arianism (the denial that Jesus was God) or Nestorianism (in which Mary mothers only the human nature of Jesus but not his whole person).

Two themes are present in the Readings for this Solemnity: (1) the person of Mary, and (2) the name of Jesus.   Why the name of Jesus? Prior to the second Vatican Council, the octave day of Christmas was the Feast of the Holy Name, not Mary Mother of God.  The legacy of that tradition can be seen in the choice of Readings for this Solemnity.  (The Feast of the Holy Name was removed from the calendar after Vatican II; St. John Paul II restored it as an optional memorial on January 3.  This year it is not observed in the U.S., because Epiphany falls on January 3.)

1.  The First Reading is Numbers 6:22-27:


The LORD said to Moses:
“Speak to Aaron and his sons and tell them:
This is how you shall bless the Israelites.
Say to them:
The LORD bless you and keep you!
The LORD let his face shine upon
you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and
give you peace!
So shall they invoke my name upon the Israelites,
and I will bless them.”

This Solemnity is one of the very few times that the Book of Numbers is read on a Lord’s Day or Feast Day.  Here’s a little background on the Book of Numbers:

The Book of Numbers is a little less neglected than Leviticus among modern Christian readers, if only because, unlike its predecessor, it combines its long lists of laws with a number of dramatic narratives about the rebellions of Israel against God in the wilderness, which create literary interest.  The name “Numbers” is, perhaps, already off-putting for the modern reader—it derives from the Septuagint name Arithmoi, “Numbers”, referring to the two numberings or censuses, one each of the first and second generations in the Wilderness, that form the pillars of the literary structure of the book in chs. 1 and 26.  The Hebrew name is bamidbar, “In the Wilderness,” which is an accurate description of the geographical and spiritual location of Israel throughout most of the narrative.
         The Book of Numbers has a strong literary relationship with its neighbors in the Pentateuch.  In many ways it corresponds with the Book of Exodus.  Exodus begins with the people staying in Egypt (Exodus 1-13), then describes their journey to through the desert (Exodus 14-19), and ends with them stationary at Sinai (20-36).  Numbers begins with the people staying at Sinai (Num 1-10), describes their journey through the desert (Num 11-25), and ends with them stationary on the Plains of Moab.  Sinai and the Plains of Moab correspond: at each location the people will receive a covenant (see below on Deuteronomy).  Furthermore, there are strong literary connections between the journeys through the Wilderness to and from Sinai (Ex 14-19; Num 11-25).  Both these sections are dominated by accounts of the people of Israel “murmuring” (Heb. lôn), “rebelling” (Heb. mārāh), or “striving” (Heb. rîb) against the LORD and/or Moses, together with Moses’ need for additional help to rule an unruly people (Ex 18; Num 11:16-39), and God’s miraculous provision for the people’s physical needs (Ex 15:22-17:7; Num 11:31-34; 20:1-13).  This is evidence of careful literary artistry: the central Sinai Narrative (Exod 20–Num 10) is surrounded by the unruly behavior of the people wandering in the desert.
         Numbers also has a close relationship with Leviticus.  If Leviticus established a sacred “constitution” for the life of Israel, exhibiting a logical, systematic order concluded, like a good covenant document, with a listing of blessings and curses (Lev 26), Numbers is more like a list of “amendments” to the “constitution,” together with accounts of the historical circumstances that led to their enactment.  And like the lists of amendments on many state and national constitutions, the laws have an ad hoc, circumstantial character, with little logical connection between successive “amendments.” 
         Finally, Numbers “sets the stage” for the Book of Deuteronomy, providing us the necessary information about Israel’s geographical and moral condition when they arrived at the “Plains of Moab opposite Jericho” in order to appreciate Moses’ extended homily and renewal of the covenant that he will deliver at this site in the final book of the Pentateuch.

The specific text we have in this First Reading is the famous Priestly Blessing of Numbers 6.  The formula for blessing given to the priests involves the invocation of the Divine Name (YHWH) three times over the people of Israel. 

A Brief Excursus on the Divine Name
“If they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say?” “God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” say … “I AM has sent me to you” (Ex 3:13-14).  The revelation of the divine Name to Moses (Ex 3:13-15) is one of the most theologically significant passages of the Old Testament.  By revealing himself as “I AM”, God distinguishes himself from the other gods of the nations, which “are not.”  He is the only God who truly is.  Furthermore, the name “I AM” stresses that God exists of himself; unlike all other beings he does not take his existence from some other cause.  Later philosophical language will describe God as the one necessary being.  While lacking technical philosophical language, the ancients did have the concept of self-existence: in Egyptian religion, the sun-god Amon-RÄ“ “came into being by himself” and all other beings took their existence from him.  However, God reveals to Moses that it is He, the LORD—not Amon-RÄ“ or any other Egyptian god—who is the ground of being and the source of existence. 

The actual word given to Israel to serve as the Name of God is spelled YHWH in the English equivalents of the Hebrew consonants. It is not the full phrase “I AM WHO I AM” but rather an archaic form of the Hebrew verb HYH, “to be,” with the meaning “HE IS.” Out of respect for the third commandment, Jews after the Babylonian exile (c. 597–537 BC) ceased to pronounce the divine name at all, but instead substituted the title “Lord,” in Hebrew adonai, in Greek kyrios.  Thus the God of Israel is called ho kyrios, “the Lord” in the New Testament.  This sheds light on the meaning of the phrase, “Jesus is Lord!” (Rom 10:9; 1 Cor 12:3).

The Hebrew language was written without vowels until around AD 700, when Jewish scribes developed a vowel-writing system.  The form YHWH, however, was written with the vowels for adonai, the word Jews actually pronounced.  The English translators of the King James Version did not understand this system, and in a few instances combined the Hebrew consonants of YHWH (called the tetragrammaton, lit. “the four letters”) with the Hebrew vowels of adonai to form the erroneous name “Jehovah.”  Catholic tradition addresses God with neither the mistaken form “Jehovah” nor the ancient pronunciation “Yahweh,” but uses “LORD” to refer to the God of Israel, in keeping with the practice of Jesus and the Apostles.  In most English Bibles, “LORD” in caps represents YHWH in the Hebrew text, while “Lord” in lower case represents the actual Hebrew word adonai.

The concept of “name” in Hebrew culture was of great significance.  The “name” represented the essence of the person, and invoking the name made the person mystically present.  Therefore, God will speak of the manifestation of his presence in the Temple as the “dwelling of his Name” in various places of the Old Testament.
The invocation of the Name of God over the people of Israel communicates God’s presence and Spirit to them at least a mediated way. 

In post-exilic Judaism, the Divine Name (YHWH) was seldom if ever pronounced, except on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), when the High Priest would make atonement for the whole nation in the Holy of Holies, and then exit the Temple in order to bless the assembled people in the Temple courts.  There, he would pronounce the blessing of Numbers 6, including the vocalization of the Divine Name.  Every time the people would hear the Name pronounced, they would drop prostrate on the ground.  This is recorded in Sirach:

Sir. 50:20 Then Simon came down, and lifted up his hands over the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, to pronounce the blessing of the Lord with his lips, and to glory in his name, and to glory in his name;  21 and they bowed down in worship a second time, to receive the blessing from the Most High.

Similar information is recorded in the Mishnah, the second-century AD collection of rabbinic tradition and teaching that become the basis of the legal system of modern Judaism.  So in the Mishnah, tractate Yoma 3:8 and 6:2:

And [when the people heard the four letter Name] they answer after [the High Priest]: “Blessed be the Name of His glorious Kingdom forever and ever”. (M. Yoma 3:8)

Then, the priests and the people standing in the courtyard, when they heard the explicit Name from the mouth of the High Priest, would bend their knees, bow down and fall on their faces, and they would say, "Blessed be the Honored Name of His Sovereignty forever!" (M. Yoma 6:2)

We read this passage of Scripture in today’s liturgy for a variety of reasons. 

First, we gather as God’s people around the world on this, the first day of the civil year, to ask from God his blessing upon us. 

Second, we commemorate (in the Gospel) the circumcision and naming of Jesus.  For us in the New Covenant, the Name of God continues to be a source of blessing and Divine Presence, but the name we are to use is no longer YHWH but “Jesus.”  Jesus is God’s Name, the source of salvation.  When Paul speaks to the Philippians about the Name of Jesus, he may have in mind the prostrations in the Temple at the Divine Name:

Phil. 2:10  At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth …

It has never been the Christian tradition to pronounce the holy name “YHWH.”  Jesus and the Apostles practiced the Jewish piety of substituting “Lord” (‘adonai, kyrios, dominus) for the pronunciation of the Name.  For this reason, under the pontificate of Benedict XVI, the pronounced name “Yahweh” was removed from contemporary worship resources.  The sect of the Jehovah’s Witnesses insist on the pronunciation of the Name, although their form of pronunciation is erroneous, and there is nothing in Christian tradition or the New Testament to encourage such a practice.  For us, the saving name is now “Jesus,” and although full prostration at the pronunciation of the name of Jesus is impractical, Catholic piety dictates a bow of the head at the mention of the Holy Name.

2.  The Second Reading is Galatians 4:4-7:

Brothers and sisters:
When the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son,
born of a woman, born under the law,
to ransom those under the law,
so that we might receive adoption as sons.
As proof that you are sons,
God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts,
crying out, “Abba, Father!”
So you are no longer a slave but a son,
and if a son then also an heir, through God.

This Reading has ties to the Gospel, which emphasizes Mary’s role in Christ’s birth (“born of a woman”) as well as Jesus and his family being obedient Jews, faithful to the Old Covenant in submitting to circumcision (“born under the law.”)

This Reading also reminds us that Jesus calls us to Divine sonship (or childhood, if gender neutrality is desired).  Let’s not forget that this is unique to the Christian faith.  Christianity—unlike Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Atheism—is a religion about becoming children of God.  In Judaism, Divine childhood is metaphorical; in Islam, it is blasphemy.  In Eastern religions, it is irrelevant, because God is not ultimately a personal being, but rather an impersonal force or essence that animates all or simply is All.  Christianity alone holds out the possibility of familial intimacy with Creator as a son or daughter to a Father.

Let us also notice the close connection between the gift of the Holy Spirit and divine sonship.  From a legal perspective, it is the New Covenant that makes us children of God; from an ontological perspective, it is the Spirit that makes us children.  The sending of the Spirit “into our hearts,” as St. Paul says, is parallel to the inbreathing of the “breath of life” into the nostrils of Adam, causing him to become “a living being.”  So we are revivified by the Holy Spirit, as Adam was brought to life at the dawn of time.  Adam was king of the universe, as it says: “Have dominion over the over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth” (Gen 1:28).  The word “dominion” (Heb radah) evokes the context of kingly rule: later it will be used of Solomon’s imperial reign (1 Kings 4:24; Ps 72:8; 110:2; 2 Chr 8:10).  So the Holy Spirit makes us royalty in Christ: as St. Paul says, “no longer a slave but a son … also an heir, through God.”  No longer a slave to what?  Sin, death, and the devil.  If we live controlled by lusts, in fear of death, and swayed by the suggestions of Satan, than we are still slaves.  If we are free of these things, then we are walking in the Spirit, as children of God.  This is a theme in the First Epistle of John, which is read during daily mass all through the Christmas season.

4.  The Gospel is Luke 2:16-21:

The shepherds went in haste to Bethlehem and found Mary and Joseph,
and the infant lying in the manger.
When they saw this,
they made known the message
that had been told them about this child.
All who heard it were amazed
by what had been told them by the shepherds.
And Mary kept all these things,
reflecting on them in her heart.
Then the shepherds returned,
glorifying and praising God
for all they had heard and seen,
just as it had been told to them.

When eight days were completed for his circumcision,
he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel
before he was conceived in the womb.

We note several things: Mary “kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart.”  This is not only an historical indication of where St. Luke is getting his information about these events (so John Paul II [in his Wednesday audience of Jan. 28, 1987] and the Catholic tradition generally), but also a model of the contemplative vocation to which all Christians are called.  Especially during this Christmas season, up until the Baptism (Jan 13), we should carve out some time for quiet prayer, to meditate on the incredible events we celebrate and allow their meaning to sink into our hearts. 

Then we see the shepherds “glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen …”  This, too, describes the Christian’s vocation.  Pope Francis in particular has been calling us to return to the aspect of praise and joy that characterizes the disciple of Jesus.  Our faith is experiential, it is not just a philosophy.  It is an encounter with a person.  All of us should know what it means to come into contact with Jesus, to “hear and see” him.  In his First Epistle (which we are reading right now in daily mass), St. John sounds much like the shepherds:

1John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life —  2 the life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us —  3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.  4 And we are writing this that our joy may be complete.

Observe the connection in this passage with “seeing” and “hearing” and the culmination in proclamation and joy.  This is what disciples of Jesus do: they experience Jesus and then proclaim in joy what they have encountered.

Finally, we see the naming of Jesus at his circumcision.  Christians no longer practice circumcision, because Baptism is the “circumcision of the heart” promised by Moses that surpasses physical circumcision (cf. Deut 10:16; 30:6; Acts 2:37; Col 2:11-12).  Yet at our Baptism, the “circumcision of our heart,” we still receive our Christian name.

The name given to Jesus is the Hebrew word y’shua, meaning “salvation.”  In the Old Testament, we are more familiar with the name under the form “Joshua,” who was an important type of Christ.  Just as Moses was unable to lead the people of Israel into the promised land, but Joshua did; so also Jesus is our New Joshua who takes us into the salvation to which Moses and his covenant could not lead us.

Salvation is now found in the Name of Jesus, because salvation means to enter into a relationship of childhood with God the Father.  It’s not that other great religious leaders (Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius etc.) claimed to be able to lead us into divine childhood, but couldn’t. It’s that they did not even claim to be able to do so.  Jesus is unique.  So Jesus says, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).  This is not arrogance.  Jesus is the only great religious founder in human history to proclaim that God is a Father and we can become his children.  This concept of divine filiation is at the heart of the Gospel.  In a sense, it can be said to be the heart of the Gospel. 

On this Solemnity, let us give thanks to God that he has, through Jesus, made a way for us to become his children and receive a new name which he has given us (see Rev 2:17).  This intimate, personal relationship with God has been made possible by the cooperation of Mary, who became the mother of the one whose Name is Salvation. 


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; marymotherofgod
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To: ealgeone
I have learned redefining words is a hallmark of roman catholicism.


 

said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  

1,201 posted on 01/07/2016 8:24:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MHGinTN
Jesus was Mary's First Born.

Heretic Prot!!!

Don't you KNOW that means ONLY born?

How dumb ARE you???

1,202 posted on 01/07/2016 8:26:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
Entering into that covenant with him and vowing to him to be his wife when she already had made a previous vow, would make her an adulterer. a woman who deprives her husband; which is something Scripture warns against...


1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent...

1,203 posted on 01/07/2016 8:29:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ebb tide
Puerile response. Is that all you've got?

Yeah; it is.

NO response is being over used in this thread.

1,204 posted on 01/07/2016 8:30:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom; Arthur McGowan

Yeah, I saw that post. I choose not to get involved in that conversation.

I do not believe that God died on the cross in the sense that He ceased to exist.

But I think the question can be raised whether God tasted death. That is, are the three persons of the Trinity so closely united one to another, that when Jesus experienced the condition of death, i.e., the separation of His body from His soul, did the Father and the Holy Spirit fully share in that experience? Or, because the Father and Holy Spirit are not in the flesh, is it only the incarnate Jesus that experienced this condition?


1,205 posted on 01/07/2016 8:31:42 AM PST by rwa265
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To: metmom

Thank you for your patience with my inquiry. I now understand how you have come to believe as you do, and will no longer pester you about it.


1,206 posted on 01/07/2016 8:32:05 AM PST by rwa265
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To: rwa265

Thank you.


1,207 posted on 01/07/2016 8:35:39 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: rwa265
That is, are the three persons of the Trinity so closely united one to another, that when Jesus experienced the condition of death, i.e., the separation of His body from His soul, did the Father and the Holy Spirit fully share in that experience? Or, because the Father and Holy Spirit are not in the flesh, is it only the incarnate Jesus that experienced this condition?

I don't know that I've ever seen that addressed in Scripture.

I guess that will be filed in my *Ask God when I die and see Him* category.

1,208 posted on 01/07/2016 8:37:40 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: rwa265
The Scriptures tell us that God took a physical body, prepared a body for The Son, so that The Son could 'taste death for all men'. The Spirit cannot 'taste death' because it is not in the same coordinate system as the body, or the soul. The separation of body and soul is something unique to physical beings in our sensory coordinate system.

That said, there is a type of 'death' which Jesus recognized and hinted at with His disciples. Recall the story of the young man who came to Jesus asking what 'else' he could do to inherit eternal life. Jesus told His disciples to let the 'dead' go bury the dead, when the young man turned away from following Jesus. The state of the human spirit is 'dead' without God-life in it. The young man could walk away a walking dead man because his spirit was in the state of 'dead'. Being born from above changes that state of 'dead' in the spirit, to alive, by The Grace of God in Christ.

1,209 posted on 01/07/2016 8:40:40 AM PST by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: metmom; MHGinTN
Additionally, if she had indeed made a vow of perpetual virginity to the Holy Spirit, then how did she and could she justifying entering into a marriage covenant with Joseph?

Note that actually her father or husband would clearly have the binding or loosing say so in such a case, (Num 30) to which party Caths give no credit to (though Mary's consent to God is used to make her co-redeemer), while a marriage of leaving but not sexually cleaving is contrary to the original description of marriage and which the Lord Himself affirmed

And which purpose is an argument against homosexual marriage, and not intending to ever procreate even could be grounds for RC annulment.

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Genesis 2:24)

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:4-6)

1,210 posted on 01/07/2016 9:24:29 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: Elsie

What do you believe, Elsie? Is Mary the mother of God whole and entire, or is Mary only the mother of Jesus, who is the incarnate Son of God?


1,211 posted on 01/07/2016 9:43:31 AM PST by rwa265
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To: ealgeone
Good post with appropriate scriptures for back up.

This scripture jumped out to my mind

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.
1 Corinthians 4:6
as an excellent answer to the statement "Jesus doesn't say, 'Just keep repeating EXACTLY the words and phrases that I spoke to you'"

And of course Jesus didn't say EXACTLY that to us, but made it clear to repeat His words to others so they may receive salvation and edification.

What He did NOT say was to vainly repeat "prayers" or extra-Biblical prayers writtings which greatly exceed that which was written and instructed by the Holy Spirit of God.

Notice how arrogance follows going against the Word of God.

Helps to understand the anger and hate that flies off of some keyboards when scripture and Biblical principles are expressed by Christians here to refute the false teachings of men.

1,212 posted on 01/07/2016 10:06:30 AM PST by Syncro (James 1-8- A double minded man is unstable in all his ways-- Holy Bible)
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To: verga; Syncro
.
>>”Mormons are intelligent enough to know that Jesus did begin the Catholic Church” <<

Balderdash!

Nothing in Gods word says that Yeshua founded anything but his assembly, which began with Adams godly seed, and has no pope.

Its name, as per the word, is Israel.

Yeshua stated plainly and unequivocally in Matthew 15:24

"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

There is not a word about a “Universal Church” as a physical corporate body anywhere in the Bible.
.

1,213 posted on 01/07/2016 10:12:50 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

The Greek and the context of the NT disagrees with your assertions on Mary’s perpetual virginity.


1,214 posted on 01/07/2016 10:23:29 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: rwa265

.
Nothing in the word of God says that “there are three persons of the Trinity.”

The word tells us that there are the Father and the Son, and that they are one. They have an eternal, everlasting life, which is their omnipresent Spirit.

Because their spirit is set apart from all other spirits, it is called “Holy” which means set apart.

If you wish to declare me wrong on this, please do show me where the word of God says that God is three persons. (scripture reference required)
.


1,215 posted on 01/07/2016 10:23:46 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: terycarl
I noticed you did not answer my question. But you did offer this for distraction:
They teach it in Catholic schools. What is it if someone kneels in front of a statue?

In your picture, the kneeler is also a statue....indicating that the real person was kneeling before another real person....see how easy common sense is??

1,125 posted on 1/6/2016, 7:54:22 PM by terycarl (COMMOn SENSE PREVAILS OVERALL!)
So you accept that as real and OK for Catholics to do?

Bow down to and pray to a woman who has passed on and venerated to the status of an idol like the golden calf?

It's good to teach children to do that in your view?

No one can be in the presence of Mary so it is a made up scene to deceive children and get them to follow Catholicism instead of Jesus.

Oh and is it common sense to type common sense in this manner? COMMOn SENSE?

Thought I would throw that in so you can comment on it and ignore the Truths presented to you as is your style.

I have a tagline also, take it personally if you like but do take it to heart.

The Bible says to meditate on God's Word, maybe do that on James 1:8

1,216 posted on 01/07/2016 10:39:19 AM PST by Syncro (James 1:8- A double minded man is unstable in all his ways-- Holy Bible)
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To: editor-surveyor

I do not wish to get into a discussion with you on this. You are correct that Scripture neither includes the word Trinity nor teaches the Trinitarian doctrine. There is substantial material in Scripture on which to build the doctrine of the Trinity. Believe or not believe as you wish.

Peace,
Rich


1,217 posted on 01/07/2016 10:48:52 AM PST by rwa265
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To: verga; editor-surveyor
To: editor-surveyor; Syncro
Catholics have only existed since Constantine invented them in 364 AD.

You want to know what is really funny, is that even with all their crazy ideas the Mormons are intelligent enough to know that Jesus did begin the Catholic Church with Peter as the first Pope. They just think it went off the rails with the "Great apostasy".

Well score one for the LDS.

Source text and origin or link please as per the guidelines of the Religion Forum

Doesn't surprise me in the least that you would use something from a cult to "prove" Catholicism.

Satan is the father of lies.

If you believe in Mormonism, do you know that you can have your own planet with hundreds of wives to populate it?

1,218 posted on 01/07/2016 11:15:12 AM PST by Syncro (James 1:8- A double minded man is unstable in all his ways-- Holy Bible)
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To: Syncro; verga

.
Kind of Islamic, isn’t it!


1,219 posted on 01/07/2016 11:36:29 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Well Catholicism decrees that Catholics worship the god of Islam, same god they have so the directive says.


1,220 posted on 01/07/2016 11:57:24 AM PST by Syncro (James 1:8- A double minded man is unstable in all his ways-- Holy Bible)
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