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To: vladimir998
Context and sound hermeneutics are key in understanding the verses you cite else you are practicing eisegesis instead of exegesis.

The Bible is clear that we come to Christ through faith/belief in Him.

The fruit we produce, often confused with good works, is a natural outgrowth of the faith that is in us.

However, these good works do not save us. Apart from faith in Christ one can do all the "good" things they want, but that will not save them.

When a person believes Christ that person is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13-14; Ephesians 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22). The Holy Spirit is given as a downpayment on our future inheritance. No where in the NT does it ever say this is taken away from us.

49 posted on 11/06/2015 4:38:56 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

“Context and sound hermeneutics are key in understanding the verses you cite else you are practicing eisegesis instead of exegesis.”

All Protestants must by necessity practice eisegesis. Again, the Bible is clear about the necessity of obedience to God.

“The Bible is clear that we come to Christ through faith/belief in Him.”

And no one is denying that here.

“The fruit we produce, often confused with good works, is a natural outgrowth of the faith that is in us.”

The fruit we produce - is started by God in us - and we cooperate with His grace. And those good works - and it is deniable that’s what they are since they are started by God - is one way God chooses to share His grace with us.

“However, these good works do not save us.”

No one here is claiming they do. But God’s grace does save us. And cooperating with God’s graceful actions within us allows God another avenue - for lack of better way of putting it off the top of my head - for giving us grace.

“Apart from faith in Christ one can do all the “good” things they want, but that will not save them.”

You keep attacking something that no one here is promoting. Again, we see that the most common tendency among anti-Catholics is to revile and attack what they apparently do not know and do not understand.

As Catholic Answers says - in yet another article filled with scripture and perfectly sound interpretation which you probably will ignore:

The truth is, it is the grace of Christ alone that saves us by our cooperating with that grace in fulfilling the “law of Christ.” This is precisely what St. Paul teaches in Galatians 3:2-3, 5:2-6. And take note how he writes concerning these same “Judaizers:”

Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh… (5:2) Now I Paul say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness (Gr. dikaiosune—justification). For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love.

Notice St. Paul’s emphasis on our being in grace and our working through the Spirit and in Christ in order to remain in Christ. Back in Romans, St. Paul said very similarly.

Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2)

In Romans 6:16, St. Paul goes on to tell us that after baptism (cf. Romans 6:3-4) obedience to Christ (that means good works!) leads us to justification while sin (that means bad works!) will lead us to death:

Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death (Gr.—eis thanaton, “unto death”), or of obedience, which leads to righteousness (Gr.—eis dikaiosunen—unto justification).

Notice: St. Paul makes it very clear. Obedience leads to justification and eternal life while sin leads to eternal death (see also Romans 6:23). Thus, St. Paul’s emphasis is not just on works, but works done in and through the power of Christ. In Romans 8:1-14, St. Paul tells us in no uncertain terms that we must be in Christ and continuing to live our lives in Christ in order to do works that please God.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus… who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit… and those who are in the flesh cannot please God… So, then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh – for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

The key, again, is to remember St. Paul is emphasizing our continuing in Christ, or, in his grace or “kindness.” In Romans 11:22, he says it this way:

Note then the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

Just so no one would get the wrong idea of what St. Paul was saying, it seems, he put it plain and simple in Galatians 5:19-21 and 6:7-9. There is no way we can get “justification by faith alone” that excludes works as necessary for justification in any and every sense if we read these texts carefully. St. Paul makes clear that if Christians allow themselves to be dominated by their “flesh,” or lower nature, they will not make it to heaven.

Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God... (6:7) Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (eternal death); but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.

Here St. Paul teaches that through good works, or continuing to “sow to the Spirit,” we will be rewarded with eternal life, but only if we persevere.

When a person believes Christ that person is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13-14; Ephesians 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22). The Holy Spirit is given as a downpayment on our future inheritance. No where in the NT does it ever say this is taken away from us.

The whole article is written by a former Protestant. You might want to read it. You probably won’t. http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/are-good-works-necessary-for-salvation


56 posted on 11/06/2015 5:47:15 PM PST by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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