Posted on 11/01/2015 1:53:00 PM PST by NYer
Ross Douthat politely but definitively unloads on the liberal Catholic theologians who griped about his opining in The New York Times, critical of Pope Francis and his allies in attempting to liberalize Catholic teaching on marriage, divorce, and communion. Excerpt:
At which point we come to the third argument, which makes an appearance in your letter: You don’t understand, you’re not a theologian. As indeed I am not. But neither is Catholicism supposed to be an esoteric religion, its teachings accessible only to academic adepts. And the impression left by this moving target, I’m afraid, is that some reformers are downplaying their real position in the hopes of bringing conservatives gradually along.
What is that real position? That almost anything Catholic can change when the times require it, and “developing†doctrine just means keeping up with capital-H History, no matter how much of the New Testament is left behind.
As I noted earlier, the columnist’s task is to be provocative. So I must tell you, openly and not subtly, that this view sounds like heresy by any reasonable definition of the term.
Now it may be that today’s heretics are prophets, the church will indeed be revolutionized, and my objections will be ground under with the rest of conservative Catholicism. But if that happens, it will take hard grinding, not just soft words and academic rank-pulling. It will require a bitter civil war.
And so, my dear professors: Welcome to the battlefield.
Read the whole thing. It is marvelous. That is a Catholic layman who has stones. That is a Catholic layman who is prepared to fight for what he believes to be true. I hope that the courage of his very public witness gives orthodox Catholic priests, theologians, laymen and all others what they need to find their own voice.
Catholic ping!
Good to see this in the NY Times. Not only the original column, but this response as well.
Interesting article.
We have an unprecedented attack underway by the forces of evil masquerading as progress. Our Church needs to fight that evil and those “Catholics”, including clergy, who would corrupt the Gospel need to be expelled.
>> At which point we come to the third argument, which makes an appearance in your letter: You dont understand, youre not a theologian.
You-are-not-a-theologian is surfacing frequently as a tactic among liberals seeking to sway the body of CHRIST from the straight and narrow way.
It affects us your Protestant brethren also.
Similar to the climate change religion asserting that if you are not a climate scientist, your inputs are a priori invalid.
Ignore them and continue to fight the good fight!
A Catholic theologian, even if a bishop or pope ( unless pope ratifying all bisops scattered throughout world or speaking ex cathedra) standing alone is no more than a theology wonk. They can argue among themseleve or with a lay person like Douthat until the end of time without having any authority or say so over Magisterial teachings.
Self importance. Ha.
Dreher is an unadulterated, self absorbed, holier than thou creep, a classic example of a protestant swinging the theemeeatoe (thurifer) as one of my priest fishing buddies used to say. His understanding of Orthodoxy, and Roman Catholicism for that matter, might exceed that of my dog, but I tend to doubt it!. He doesn’t live and walk Orthodoxy; he lives and walks American conservative politics! If anyone is afflicted with crazy convert disease, it’s Dreher!
Don’t listen to him; you Latins lucked out when he left. Why we let him in is beyond me!
I appreciate your response, Kolokotronis. I’ve been very concerned about the direction in which Pope Francis seems to be moving. I don’t know what to say.
Oh please. No one is going to do a darn thing about Francis and his liberal mafia. No one is taking up arms, or doing anything else. If you are a true follower of Jesus Christ, come out of her, and follow Christ only. God will make her drink the cup of her obominations.
It’s an excellent piece- Douthat does not cede an inch.
Leaving the Church is an absurd suggestion. The path to the Cross is a suffering Catholics know, by sacred scripture, is coming and unavoidable. The enemy plays with Holy Mother Church, but he shall not destroy her though many in her shall be tested and fall.
Pray for yourself, outside of her.
“I appreciate your response, Kolokotronis. I’ve been very concerned about the direction in which Pope Francis seems to be moving. I don’t know what to say.”
t, it’s your concern, your discipline, your’s to resolve! Don’t take your lead from the likes of Dreher. Pray unceasingly and you will be fine.
Thank you, friend. I have been praying for Pope Francis and Pope Benedict. I know that God has a plan. I just don’t know yet what it is. :)
Way to go, Rod !
I don’t know about Dreher, but the quotes from Ross Douthat make sense.
Maybe I should explain that I am a Catholic. I converted from Episcopalian back in the 1950s. I have been perturbed by all the nonsense that came in with “the Spirit of Vatican II.” The old Latin Mass was far better, and the churches were much fuller back then.
I say “the Spirit of Vatican II,” because I have read all the documents of the Council, and there are no heretical statements in any of them. But I think the Council was unwise. In the long history of the Church, some councils have been badly needed and very important. Others could have been skipped. Vatican II is one of those, for the most part.
I remain in the Church, and put up with it. But it saddens me to see our children so badly educated in their faith, and our fellow Catholics rarely attending Mass. But much as I would like to attend Latin Masses, I have stayed away from the Society of Pius X or Pius V. The Catholic Church is the one and only, and schism should be avoided.
God will protect His Church from error ex Cathedra, but there have been some bad or weak popes in the past, and I’m afraid that Pope Francis is behaving as kind of a jerk. Pope Benedict was great, and I’m still mystified why he retired or perhaps was forced into retirement. Deathly ill? Apparently not. His mind still seems to be working much better than Pope Francis’s, judging from an article I read a little while ago.
I hate to criticize the Pope, so I don’t often post much on these threads. But I think we need to be aware of whatever is going on—as far as we can.
“expelled” ain’t the word for it. They can preach again. They need to be terminated.
I,I,I,I I, You sound like Obama, another Christian.
That is not the Church.
Try Faith in Her, Jesus bride is no harlet.
As for antichrists....the Church belongs to Christ and the gates of hell are little girl creations....FAITH.
DISREGARD fear, chicken littles. Be not afraid.
The rumor is (for what it’s worth) that Benedict was too emotionally devastated by the scandal surrounding his (well really precipitated by) his personal butler and the Vatican Bank to continue his pontificate.
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