Posted on 10/31/2015 6:36:53 AM PDT by Colofornian
Situated at the heart of Salt Lake City, Utah, Temple Square is the spiritual, cultural and administrative center of the Mormon faith. This ten acres plot of land includes a Temple, a domed tabernacle and numerous buildings, monuments and memorials. While this place may seem holy and wholesome, a closer look at the structures reveal the presence of occult, pagan and masonic symbols. A deeper study of those grounds only adds to the controversy regarding Mormonism and reveals the disturbing truth about its real god.
This article's intent is not to condemn Mormonism as a faith, but rather to analyze the symbols in Temple Square in an objective matter. A visitor of this religious area finds himself surrounded with symbols esoterically associated with Black Magic, evil or ancient paganism. Why are these symbols visible on supposedly Christian buildings, of all places? Many ex-Mormons have claimed that the LDS secretly leads followers to the worship of Lucifer. Are they right?
The Temple is the centerpiece of Temple Square and acts as the heart of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The building itself is stern and imposing and surrounded with many sculptures. It is said to accomplish the same functions as the ancient Temple of Jerusalem. While we can write pages on how this is not true, we'll focus on the structure itself...
(Excerpt) Read more at vigilantcitizen.com ...
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
The main guideline to posting on the Religion Forum: "Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal."
Does anyone know who runs the website?
Excuse me, I did not see that the thread was posted under Religion Forum until you brought it to my attention.
It came to my page on General topics and that was when I responded.
It would seem ‘personal’ that the particular poster often posts harsh anti-Mormon.
I’ve been to Temple Square with my family. It was a wonderful place. We thought the statue of Christ surrounded by the universe to be amazingly reverent. No one stopped my mother from leading the Angelus three times and the Apostle’s Creed.
I’ve met the Mormons back home and even read their books. My brother joined after we migrated and it really helped him get his life in order, but it wasn’t for me. I respect their religion but think it’s really foolish to claim a religion that believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God, is God incarnate, and is the only way to be saved is not a Christian faith. Just because they interpret biblical passages differently or have more scripture doesn’t mean they’re automatically not Christian. I’ve learned to trust people: if they say they are Christian because they believe in Jesus and accept him as their Savior, AND they live their lives striving to follow him; then I accept them as Christian even though they are not part of the Catholic religion and despite my church says they aren’t Christians.
Sure, Mormons are definitely not Catholic or Protestant, but Christianity is so broad that it equally has the pope, Josh Duggar, and Vladimir Putin within its ranks.
I grew up being taught that Protestants like baptists and evangelicals weren’t real Christians and were going equally to hell as our indigenous Iglesia ni Cristo sect because they rejected the authority of the Mother Church. However, as I got older, I realized no one really knows for sure since none of us can be proven to have seen or spoken to God. We’re all assuming we know what his will is.
One thing that impressed me with the Mormons is at least the ones I know try to live better and try to live as genuine Christians. I can’t say that about a lot of my fellow Catholics or even an ex-neighbor who used to be a Mormon. He loved attacking the Mormon religion and tried to convince my brother to leave it because it was a cult or false Christian faith. It was hard to take him seriously because my brother’s live improved drastically when he joined because he stopped drinking and smoking, but this ex-neighbor drank, smoked, and constantly chased women.
Jesus said, “By their fruits you will know them.” If Mormonism is so bad, why are their fruits so good?
Posting anti-Mormon comments/threads is personal as it targets individuals.
Posting information that is considered anti-MormanISM is within the guidelines as it deals with the belief system not the followers.
Re alleged “personal issues” I was never a Mormon and have not been “grieved” (other than their lostness in Christ) by a Mormon person...so your accusations are off-base
I don’t start threads like you do, I simply reply to them. Let us question why would someone post the stuff that you do? Conceit? Missionary Work? If so, for God or Satan? A desire to undercut those whose beliefs differ with yours?
Perhaps you should apply your storied Samuel quote to your own soul. Seriously, at the bottom line you make no sense to me unless you’re just trying to show your pride. So, what’s your bottom line? Educate me. If you’re claiming to be a prophet please start your reply with that claim.
Funny how I never contacted on the mods this week on any given post.
Another false accusation?
Diabolos is the Greek name for "devil" ... it essentially means "accuser" or "backbiter"...
If I were you, I'd stay away from false accusations, lest somebody come along in one of these threads & begin to make some potential kind of connection there...
So...at least for others viewing this thread:
No, "X-spurt" has it wrong on his accusations...
...that I "tattled" to the mods (no I didn't)
...that I have a "personal grievance" to settle with Mormons (no, was NEVER a Mormon; nor is there any "score" to settle for some alleged "past" Mormon offense against me)
Anyway, if you're going to openly judge others on their behind-the-scene actions or motivations...at least speak the truth.
(I would hope that if somebody convinced me that I was wrong on any finger-pointing that I might engage in that I would apologize. That's part of what honoring both truth & honoring the value of others' personal reputations...)
OK, a "genuine" Christian doesn't claim to be "divine" or is shooting for godhood, as TEMPLE Mormons are vying for...
Here's the quotations from Mormon leaders themselves...And this is just from the previous 20 yrs...LOTS more both in that time frame -- and before...
(There's some typeface issues with a few of the quotations...I'll correct those for next time I post for a cleaner copy)
| Citation (or Secondary Citation) | Quote/Source | Original Citation -- if Published earlier |
| 2013 (Lds church-wide 'Course for Study') | "In a blessing received from Joseph Smith Sr., he was promised, “You will become as great as you can possibly wish—even as great as God†(Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow [1884], 10). This led him to continually reflect and ponder the scriptures until in 1840 he received the following spiritual impression: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be†(Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow, 83). This knowledge, which was later confirmed by the Prophet Joseph Smith, came to influence what he taught the remainder of his life. Compiled by Clyde J. Williams, assistant director for Correlation Evaluation for the Church Lds.org: Lorenzo Snow: Course of Study for 2013 | Lds.org: Teachings of Lorenzo Snow: Because we have divinity within us, we can become like our Father in Heaven. |
| 2012 (Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society Sunday curriculum manual) | "We believe that we are here because we kept our first estate and earned the privilege of coming to this earth. We believe that our very existence is a reward for our faithfulness before we came here, and that we are enjoying on earth the fruits of our efforts in the spirit world. We also believe that we are sowing the seed today of a harvest that we will reap when we go from here. Eternal life is to us the sum of pre-existence, present existence, and the continuation of life in immortality, holding out to us the power of endless progression and increase. With that feeling and that assurance, we believe that “As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become.†[See Lorenzo Snow, “The Grand Destiny of Man,†Deseret Evening News, July 20, 1901, 22.] Being created in the image of God, we believe that it is not improper, that it is not unrighteous, for us to hope that we may be permitted to partake of the attributes of deity and, if we are faithful, to become like unto God;… (Teaching of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith, 70-71) Secondary source: New Mormon manual promotes doctrine that “has no functioning place†in present day Mormonism | Lorenzo Snow, “The Grand Destiny of Man,†Deseret Evening News, July 20, 1901, 22, as cited in Teaching of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith, 70-71 |
| 2011 (Lds church published book, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow) | "In the spring of 1840, Lorenzo Snow was in Nauvoo, Illinois, preparing to leave for a mission in England. He visited the home of his friend Henry G. Sherwood, and he asked Brother Sherwood to explain a passage of scripture. “While attentively listening to his explanation,†President Snow later recalled, “the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me. …“As man now is, God once was: “As God now is, man may be.â€1 Feeling that he had received “a sacred communication†that he should guard carefully, Lorenzo Snow did not teach the doctrine publicly until he knew that the Prophet Joseph Smith had taught it.2 Once he knew the doctrine was public knowledge, he testified of it frequently."Lds.org: Chapter 5: The Grand Destiny of the Faithful: Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow, 2011 | Footnote 1: In Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow (1884), 46; see also “The Grand Destiny of Man,†Deseret Evening News, July 20, 1901, 22. Footnote 2: See Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, 46–47; “Glory Awaiting the Saints,†Deseret Semi-Weekly News, Oct. 30, 1894, 1 |
| 2011 (Aug. 3 Deseret article by Lds apologist Daniel C. Peterson) | "Late in his life, the Prophet Joseph Smith began to teach that humans, being children of God, can become like their Father. The doctrine is most famously expressed in the couplet of Lorenzo Snow: "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Joseph, critics often correctly say, was moving further and further away from mainstream Christendom." Lds church owned Deseret newspaper: Defending the Faith: Joseph Smith's restoration of 'theosis' was miracle, not scandal | |
| 2010 (Lds church published book, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith) | "Eternal life is to us the sum of pre-existence, present existence, and the continuation of life in immortality, holding out to us the power of endless progression and increase. With that feeling and that assurance, we believe that “As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become.†[See Lorenzo Snow, “The Grand Destiny of Man,†Deseret Evening News, July 20, 1901, 22.] Lds.org: Chapter 7: The Immortality of the Soul Teachings of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith, 2010 | Lorenzo Snow, “The Grand Destiny of Man,†Deseret Evening News, July 20, 1901, 22 |
| 2009 (Official Lds church Sunday School manual, the "revised" Gospel Principles) | “Joseph Smith taught: ‘It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God. … He was once a man like us; … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did’ (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 345–46). Secondary source: Does Mormonism still teach God the Father was once a man? | Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1976 and 1938, pp. 345-346 |
| 2007 (January, New Era and Liahona -- official Lds church publications) | He was 17 years old and with his companion stopped at a cottage in the southern states. It was his first day in the mission field and was his first door. A gray-haired woman stood inside the screen and asked what they wanted. His companion nudged him to proceed. Frightened and somewhat tongue-tied, he finally blurted out, “As man is God once was, and as God is man may become.†Strangely enough, she was interested and asked where he got that. He answered, “It’s in the Bible.†She left the door for a moment, returned with her Bible. Commenting that she was a minister of a congregation, she handed it to him and said, “Here, show me.†He took the Bible and nervously thumbed back and forth through it. Finally he handed it back saying, “Here, I can’t find it. I’m not even sure that it’s in there, and even if it is, I couldn’t find it. I’m just a poor farm boy from out in Cache Valley in Utah. I haven’t had much training. But I come from a family where we live the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it’s done so much for our family that I’ve accepted a call to come on a mission for two years, at my own expense, to tell people how I feel about it.†After half a century, he could not hold back the tears as he told me how she pushed open the door and said, “Come in, my boy. I’d like to hear what you have to say.†(First President Boyd K. Packer, Lds.org: The Quest for Spiritual Knowledge | |
| 2007 (July 20 Film interview transcript re: Lds "apostle" Dallin Oaks) | "…that first revelation [Joseph Smith’s First Vision], concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity…“Joseph Smith put together the significance of what he had taught about the nature of God and the nature and destiny of man. He preached a great sermon not long before he was murdered that God was a glorified Man, glorified beyond our comprehension, (still incomprehensible in many ways), but a glorified, resurrected, physical Being, and it is the destiny of His children upon this earth, upon the conditions He has proscribed [sic], to grow into that status themselves. That was a big idea, a challenging idea. It followed from the First Vision, and it was taught by Joseph Smith, and it is the explanation of many things that Mormons do — the whole theology of Mormonism.†Elder Oaks Interview Transcript from PBS Documentary | |
| 2007 (Lds church newsroom release July 26, 2007 | "Similarly, [Mormons] have a view of the nature of God and the eternal progression of His children that is found in no other Christian faith." Lds.org: Increase in Visibility Brings Questions, Answers Mormon Moment | |
| 2006 (January, Liahona; also published in January Ensign, p. 51) | "Not only do we know that God possesses a glorified body of flesh and bones, but from this restored understanding of the nature of God flows the Latter-day Saint belief regarding our nature and potential. The Prophet Joseph Smith once taught: “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, … and that He was once a man like us. … When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them.â€5 Lds "apostle" Dallin Oaks The Fulness of the Gospel: The Nature of the Godhead | Footnote #5: History of the Church, 6:305–7 |
| 2006 (Sept. 10 fireside to BYU students) | “I bear you my witness that God the Father lives, a glorified and exalted Man.†(Lds "apostle" Henry B. Eyring, 32:18 CES Fireside Lds.org: Gifts of the Spirit for Hard Times and Lds.org: GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT FOR HARD TIMES) | |
| 2006 (September, Journal of Evangelical Theological Society article clearly shows Snow's couplet was 'current' Lds teaching as of 2006) | Ronald V. Huggins, “Lorenzo Snow’s Couplet: ‘As Man Now Is, God Once Was; As God Now Is, Man May Be’: ’No Functioning Place in Present-Day Mormon Doctrine?’ A Response to Richard Mouw,†Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society 49, 3 (September 2006): 549–68. LORENZO SNOW’S COUPLET: “AS MAN NOW IS, GOD ONCE WAS; AS GOD NOW IS, MAN MAY BEâ€: “NO FUNCTIONING PLACE IN PRESENT-DAY MORMON DOCTRINE?†A RESPONSE TO RICHARD MOUW | |
| 2005 (D&C Church History Student Study Guide) | “While attentively listening to his explanation, the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me. …8. As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be" (Lorenzo Snow, President Lorenzo Snow: A Revelation on Tithing Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Student Study Guide, (2005), 183 | |
| 2004 (Presidents of the Church Student Manual) | “‘While attentively listening to his (Elder Sherwood’s) explanation, the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown to me … : As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be. “‘I felt this to be a sacred communication which I related to no one except my sister Eliza, until I reached England, when in a confidential, private conversation with President Brigham Young, in Manchester, I related to him this extraordinary manifestation.’" Lds.org: Chapter 5: Lorenzo Snow: Fifth President o the Church: Presidents of the Church Student Manual, (2004), 75–92 | |
| 2003 (Church History Student Manual) + New Testament Study Guide | Church History Student Manual: "One of Lorenzo Snow’s great contributions was his elucidation of the doctrine that man might one day become like God. As President of the Church he gave a discourse entitled “The Grand Destiny of Man.†He related how as a young man he had been inspired by one of the Prophet Joseph Smith’s sermons about the manifestations of God and Jesus Christ to him. Two and one-half years later, after a patriarchal blessing meeting, Joseph Smith, Sr., had promised Lorenzo that he could become as great as God himself. Two and one-half years after that, while Lorenzo listened to an explanation of the scriptures, the Lord inspired him to compose this couplet: “As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be.†President Snow stated, “Nothing was ever revealed more distinctly than that was to me.â€3Shortly before Joseph Smith’s death, Lorenzo heard him teach the same doctrine. Thereafter Elder Snow made this doctrine one of the subjects of his own discourses." Lds.org: Chapter Thirty-Five: The Church at the Turn of the Century Church History In The Fulness Of Times Student Manual, (2003), 451–464 “President [Lorenzo] Snow composed the following beautiful poem about ten years before his death. It … is the result of a life-long obedience to the teaching revealed to him about fifty-two years before. The poem is addressed to Apostle Paul, and was written in reply to the apostle’s epistle to the Philippians: …As Abra’m, Isaac, Jacob, too, First babes, then men—to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,—Which doth unfold man’s destiny." Lds.org: Philippians 1-4: Finding Strength in Jesus Christ New Testament: Student Study guide, (2003), 137–138 | Footnote 3: “The Grand Destiny of Man,†Millennial Star, 22 Aug. 1901, p. 547; see also “The Grand Destiny of Man,†15 Aug. 1901, pp. 541–42; LeRoi C. Snow, “Devotion to a Divine Inspiration,†Improvement Era, June 1919, p. 656. |
| 2002 (May, Liahona) + Section 34 A Revelation to Orson Pratt Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, (2002), 69–70 | "Exaltation means godhood, creatorship. ‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.’ (Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography of Lorenzo Snow [Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co., 1884], p. 46.) (Lds "apostle" Tom L. Perry Lds.org: Learning to Serve..."As Abra’m, Isaac, Jacob, too, First babes, then men—to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,—Which doth unfold man’s destiny.Lds.org: Section 34 A Revelation to Orson Pratt: Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, (2002), 69–70 | Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography of Lorenzo Snow [Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co., 1884], p. 46 |
| 2002 (D&C Student Manual) | President Spencer W. Kimball said in a general priesthood meeting: “Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000. “Just think of the possibilities, the potential. Every little boy that has just been born becomes an heir to this glorious, glorious program. When he is grown, he meets a lovely woman; they are married in the holy temple. They live all the commandments of the Lord. They keep themselves clean. And then they become sons of God, and they go forward with their great program—they go beyond the angels, beyond the angels and the gods that are waiting there. They go to their exaltation.†(In Conference Report, Oct. 1975, p. 120; or Ensign, Nov. 1975, p. 80; see also Alma 13:10–12.)Lds.org: Section 138 Vision of the Redemption of the Dead: Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, (2002), 356–361 | Lds.org: The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood |
| 2001 (D&C Church History Seminary Teacher Resource Manual) | "Explain that in 1840 Lorenzo Snow, who later became President of the Church, received a personal revelation in the form of a poetic couplet: As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be. He shared this revelation with no one except his sister Eliza and Brigham Young." Lds.org: Doctrine and Covenants 28: Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Teacher Resource Manual, (2001), 63–64 | Lds "apostle" Orson F. Whitney, “Lives of Our Leaders—The Apostles: Lorenzo Snow,†Juvenile Instructor, Jan. 1, 1900, 3–4 |
| 2000 (Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual) | “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme." (The First Presidency [Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder, and Anthon H. Lund], in James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 4:205–6). Lds.org: Chapter 7: The Creation Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, (2000), 16–18 | |
| 1998 (Lds church-published book -- Deseret Book -- by BYU's Robert L. Millet and Noel B. Reynolds, Latter-day Christianity: 10 Basic Issues) | "Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that human beings can grow and progress spiritually until, through the mercy and grace of Christ, they can inherit and possess all that the Father has—they can become gods. This is taught in revelations given to modern prophets (see D&C 76:58; 132:19—20), as well as in sermons delivered by Joseph Smith.9 A couplet written by Lorenzo Snow, fifth president of the LDS Church, states: As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be.10 This doctrine is generally referred to as deification, and the LDS expression of this doctrine is often misrepresented and misunderstood." BYU Maxwell Institute: 5. Do Latter-day Saints believe that men and women can become gods? | Footnote 10: President Snow often referred to this couplet as having been revealed to him by inspiration during the Nauvoo period of the church. See, for example, Deseret Weekly, 3 November 1894, 610; Deseret Weekly, 8 October 1898, 513; Deseret News, 15 June 1901, 177; and Journal History of the Church, Historical Department, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, 20 July 1901, 4. For Millet/Reynolds book, see Latter-day Christianity: 10 Basic Issues |
| 1997 | "The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this church." Secondary source: Why do some Mormons give the impression that Mormon Doctrine does not include the belief that God was once a man? | Official LDS Lesson Manual, 1997, page 34, "The Teachings of Brigham Young" |
| 1997 (Lds Church Sunday School manual, Gospel Principles) | "All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him - a god." (Lds church publication, Gospel Principles, p. 9) | |
| 1997 (Lds church book, "Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young) | “The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church." [Brigham Young, Lds.org: Chapter 4: Knowing and Honoring the Godhead: Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, (1997), 28–35] | |
| 1996 (August, Ensign) | "Exaltation means godhood, creatorship. ‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.’ (Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography of Lorenzo Snow [Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co., 1884], p. 46.) (Lds "apostle" Tom L. Perry Lds.org: Learning to Serve | Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography of Lorenzo Snow [Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co., 1884], p. 46 |
| 1994 (October, General Conference & published in November, Ensign) | "On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342–62; and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1.) Our enemies have criticized us for believing in this." Lds 'prophet' Gordon B. Hinckley, then speaking as one of three top Lds hierarchists Lds.org: Don’t Drop the Ball | The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1 |
| 1994 (Deseret Book Company published Jesus Christ and His Gospel: Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism) | "Godhood" entry: "Latter-day Saints believe that God achieved his exalted rank by progressing much as man must progress and that God is a perfected and exalted man: 'God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret...'" Much of the LDS concept of godhood is expressed in a frequently cited aphorism written in 1840 by Lorenzo Snow, fifth President of the Church. At the time, Snow was twenty-six years old, having been baptized four years earlier...Snow...as recorded in his sister's biography of him: 'The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me--the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation as it was shown me...As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." (Eliza R. Snow, p. 46)." pp.208-209 | Eliza R. Snow, p. 46, biography of brother Lorenzo Snow |
That's simply condemnation without even knowing me -- or taking the time to study what I believe...
I don't have to "prove" myself to you if personal accusations are your "forte"...
4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. (Romans 14:4)
Thanks for your detailed post but I’ve encountered that before and actually spent many months studying it. The idea that men can become “God” through Christ’s grace isn’t a problem for me since it logically follows from the assumption we’re God’s literal offspring. Why shouldn’t God’s offspring become like him if he wishes?
St Paul said we will be like the glorified Christ and receive the fullness of God. Many of the most famous saints like St Irenaeus, St. Clement of Alexandria, St. Athnasius, and the Three Cappadocians all repeatedly taught the same thing and last time I checked, none of them were Mormons.
I actually don’t understand people who demean and reduce the value of man in God’s eyes. We’re the penultimate of creation - God himself said so! He also let his Son suffer and die for mankind—no rational loving Father would sacrifice his Divine Child for the sake of mere “things” - I certainly wouldn’t have any of my children die horribly for the sake of things like iPads or pieces of dirt. Why expect God to act differently?
I will not engage in any biblical debates with anyone. I just do not care to argue on what passages mean since that’s been going on for thousands of years without resolution. I’d rather spend my time thinking about things than engage in a futile argument.
You are being attacked personally because what you are teaching cannot be refuted theologically. Jesus says we are blessed when we endure persecution by those who say all manner of evil against us FALSELY for His sake. Don’t let them get to you. The truth WILL find its way to those hearts who are diligently seeking it.
Do you disagree that Christians should “earnestly contend for the faith” once delivered unto the saints or should we all just sit back and let cults draw in unsuspecting souls because it doesn’t matter what anyone believes as long as they are “good” people?
Beautifully framed question, but it’s not what I’m talking about. You are clear in your assertion of backing for your faith while calling others cults.
What makes your faith superior and un-cultish?
I remember the first time I went to an evangelical church. I was appalled at the lack of seriousness. It went like this: Read some scripture to the crowd, listen to the leader. Say you’re sorry, take the sacrament, give your donation, claim you’re forgiven and smile.
What if all that is a spiritual scam? What if this is terribly wrong? Oh, let’s not think of that, let’s criticize others and call them names; yeah, that’s how to make it work.
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