Posted on 09/05/2015 10:15:40 AM PDT by Salvation
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
This is talking about baptism, not natural birth. Where are you getting that mistaken idea?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Your ignorance is found in abundance.
You can show them over and over, and they have such pride-filled willful blindness that it will not penetrate, and they rush to support each other in the errors and ridicule those who offer them The Truth.
If baptism in the name of Jesus Christ doesn’t result in the remission of sins, then you need to strike the center portion of Acts 2:38 from your bible.
Paul reminded the church members, in his letter to the Romans, how: “Know ye not, that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death..” Rms 6:3,4
What happened at Christ death?...his blood was spilled. When one is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, one is: “planted” in “likeness of his death”. (6:5)
Paul reminded the church members at Colosse as well: “Buried with him in baptism..”. Col. 2:12
The Devil hates baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. He knows that that is where the blood is applied, and has made every effort, for 2,000 years, to steer people, either entirely away from it, or keep the name of Jesus from being called upon at that time.
One of his most common deceptions is: “It’s a work. You can’t be saved by works!”.
So what physical effort is not a work?...going to hear a preacher?....asking someone to bring the preacher to you?...
The woman with the ‘issue of blood’ purposed in her heart to touch Jesus’ garment in order to be healed. When was her faith acknowledged?...when she touched his garment. Because that is when she received her healing, and that is when the Lord felt virtue had gone out of him: “And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.” Lk 8:46.
The absolute effort to devalue, or discredit, the commandment of baptism in the name of Jesus, reminds me of the is verse:
“But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” Matt. 23:13
It’s no wonder that ‘few there be that find it’.
“A person has to decide whether what each church proposes for belief is most reasonable to them”.
There are only two Churches, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. All other Christian faiths are ecclesial communities without the means of salvation. Sorry.
Catholicism, going strong for 2,000 years. Started by Christ himself. How long has your faith been around? 10, 20, 30, 100, 200, 500 at the most. Started by Luther, Calvin, Swaggart, Osteen, Jim Jones, Brigham Young, David Koresh, or Joe the Bartender. Did I leave any out. Or did you start it yourself because you don’t belong to any organized faith, because you’re “spiritual” and you think organized religions are silly and not necessary.
Get out of the sewer ...
“There are only two Churches, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. All other Christian faiths are ecclesial communities without the means of salvation. Sorry.”
Thanks for stating the truth of your beliefs. You need to straighten out some of your compadres who insist such as you stated is not the case.
“Thanks for stating the truth of your beliefs”.
You’re welcome.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-only-one-true-church/
I am not arguing that people should not be baptized
If you look back further into my post you will see what I said about baptism
It isn’t the water that takes away the it is the blood of Jesus that does that
Jesus was sinless, but yet he was Baptized thus it wasn’t for any kind of sin removal.
Matthew 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
The law was about man trying to save man and it just didn’t work. It has always been about the blood from Genesis to Revelation and every book in between. Never once did water save anyone as a matter of fact it destroyed the world during the flood. 1 Peter 1:18-19, water is corruptible (can be contaminated) just as much as anything else is in this fallen world except Jesus Christ. Water is for the flesh, but the Blood of the Lamb is for the soul. If you want to believe that water from a fallen man can save you then by all means good luck. I personally will go with the sinless and perfect Lamb of God, Jesus Christ for my salvation and view water Baptism as and outward visible expression of a new creation.
Leviticus 17:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Exodus 12:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Isaiah 53:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Matthew 19:25-26King James Version (KJV)
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 26:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
1 John 1:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Romans 5:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Acts 20:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Hebrews 10:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
1 Peter 1:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1 Peter 2:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Colossians 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Revelation 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Revelation 12:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
**Jesus was sinless, but yet he was Baptized thus it wasn’t for any kind of sin removal.**
He came to fulfill the Law. The priest washed in the laver before doing service to God. And even so, besides the baptism of the Lord, John baptized unto repentance. Paul rebaptized 12 ‘certain disciples’ in Ephesus, in the name of Jesus, that only knew John’s baptism, for he knew that it was a whole new commandment for rebirth.
**Matthew 26:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.**
And the testament didn’t take effect until the death of the testator: “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength AT ALL while the testator liveth”. Heb. 9:16,17
**The law was about man trying to save man and it just didn’t work. It has always been about the blood from Genesis to Revelation and every book in between.**
No argument with that.
**Water is for the flesh**
Do you believe the man-made interpretation that ‘water’, in John 3:5, is the ‘flesh’ in verse 6? John 1:13 covers natural birth, and water is not mentioned there at all.
**Never once did water save anyone as a matter of fact it destroyed the world during the flood.**
“..the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein a few, that is eight souls were SAVED by WATER. The LIKE FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” 1Peter 3:20,21
..which harmonizes with all that I put forth in post #81, including this verse....
““Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” 1Cor 15:29.
...which was just Paul explaining that it all is nothing but vanity if Christ isn’t risen from the dead. But, he knew it was not vain, for Christ is risen. That’s the good conscience Peter was referring to. It is not a vain thing, and it is not a bath. It’s burial with HIM.
All of your references to the epistles are words written to people that already were born again. The intro to those epistles prove that. Chapter 6:1-3 of Hebrews shows that the writer is addressing people that know Acts 2:38. Even Revelation has John saying: “John, to the seven churches which are in Asia..”. Rev. 1:4
**I personally will go with the sinless and perfect Lamb of God, Jesus Christ for my salvation and view water Baptism as and outward visible expression of a new creation.**
..and reject his words, commanded to his apostles in his commissions, and first expressed to the lost in Acts 2:38?
The Mormons use the same verse to defend their being baptized for the dead. Do you even know why and what this refers to? Have you stumbled into 'judaizing' the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ?
Think upon the reason Jesus said that those who will not acknowledge Him before men He will not acknowledge before the Father in Heaven. You have 'almost' lifted baptism to the level of something to be proud of. Applying God's Grace is God's work, not in any way your work, lest you boast ...
**The Mormons use the same verse to defend their being baptized for the dead. Do you even know why and what this refers to? Have you stumbled into ‘judaizing’ the Gospel of God’s Grace in Christ?**
It most certainly refers to what I said: “...which was just Paul explaining that it all is nothing but vanity if Christ isn’t risen from the dead. But, he knew it was not vain, for Christ is risen. That’s the good conscience Peter was referring to. It is not a vain thing, and it is not a bath. It’s burial with HIM.”
What I apparently didn’t make clear, is that the verse is not about being baptized in place of someone deceased, that hadn’t been baptized. It’s saying that being baptized into the body of Christ is vain if Christ, and his since deceased believers are still dead. Why keep baptizing souls into the body if the body of Christ is dead, and rises not?
**You have ‘almost’ lifted baptism to the level of something to be proud of.**
Jesus Christ, in his commissions, is the one that first emphasized water baptism be performed. He’s is found telling his disciples that THEY must baptize. That’s not Holy Ghost baptism, since the disciples were NOT the ones giving the Spirit. Jesus commanded that repentance and remission of sins be preached IN HIS NAME, beginning at Jerusalem. Acts 2:38 is the beginning of fulfilling that command. Is it from heaven, or of men?
I think that you need to read post #81 slowly, and see if I’m ‘lifting baptism’ higher than the scriptures present it.
The true reality of being baptized is the heart of the man. In doing that 'open tot he world' act of submission for baptism, dying with Christ and being raised from the water symbology with Him is to align the heart of the man tot he Truth of the Gospel, That Jesus died for us and God raised Him from the dead to bring us also to resurrection life with God in us, indwelling to raise us up as newborns in the way that we should go. This death and resurrection SYMBOLOGY is meant to align the heart of the man to the Gospel of Grace. AFTER this dead and resurrection symbol of our faithing in Him, it is the institutional church --of just about any denomination, if lead by godly men and women-- that continues the life of God's Spirit guiding the new man.
Paul was very clear what happens to those who do not submit to being raised up int he way that we should go AFTER being raised together with Him to have God in us ... at the Bema Seat the wood, hay, and stubble will be burned away as dross, leaving only what God placed in them at new birth, a new birth being born from above, symbolized, and aligned in heart (spiritual truth is aligning the heart) by submitting for baptism. As Lera stated clearly, it is ONLY The Blood of Jesus which cleanses the soul and spirit of men and women. The water is the way the heart is aligned with the Gospel of Grace, so that no man may boast of whom baptized him (as Paul found some foolish converts boasting over).
“The Roman Catholic idea that we are almost at war with one another is just silly, but it is what they want their parishioners to hear.”...........
I find this humorous because of its stupidity and falseness. Where on earth did you ever got that idea? Bishop Fulton Sheen once made a statement that many people hate the Catholic Church because they believe so many things about the church which are false.
>>I find this humorous because of its stupidity and falseness. Where on earth did you ever got that idea?
Mostly from the articles posted here by Catholics that repeatedly state that there is this huge division between Protestant denominations and that we all need to pull back under the Papal umbrella to end the soul-crushing division.
The truth is that we all cooperate quite well and get along nicely. But the Roman Church needs to paint Protestantism as this huge number (i.e. the false 30,000 denominations number) of factions. The truth is that there are less than 100 and almost all Protestant denominations and independent churches can be classified into one of 8 declarations of “what we believe” with all of them agreeing on the fundamentals of who Jesus is, what he did, and what it means for us.
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