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To: Swordmaker

I have looked at the Greek and the NKJV is a reasonable representation of the Greek. There was a separate covering for the head that was set aside from the cloths that had been wrapped around the body.


8 posted on 08/31/2015 1:44:43 AM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR!)
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To: SubMareener
Interestingly, an cloth claimed to be the separate shroud used for the head of Jesus has been located. It's dating is to the first century AD and it's chain of custody is very different than the Shroud of Turin

Tests show it to be stained with blood of Blood Type AB which is the rarest of blood types making up some 2-3% of the population.

People were not aware of the existence of blood types until very recently and the chances of two medieval forgeries containing blood with the same AB type is vanishingly small

18 posted on 08/31/2015 4:09:06 AM PDT by rdcbn ("If what has happened here is not treason, it is its first cousin." Zell Miller)
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To: SubMareener
I have looked at the Greek and the NKJV is a reasonable representation of the Greek. There was a separate covering for the head that was set aside from the cloths that had been wrapped around the body.

The head cloth, the Sudarium, exists. It is kept in the Cathedral at Oviedo Spain. The blood stains on the Sudarium of Oviedo match the blood stains on the Shroud of Turin. Patterns of other stains also match the Shroud. The provenance of the Sudarium is known all the way back to 600AD or there about. There is a distinct handprint matching a semi-faceprint (not an image) on the Sudarium where someone placed a hand seemingly carrying a body in a prone, face-down position with the hand reaching to support the head, covering the face, from the top toward the mouth and over the nose.


The Sudarium of Oviedo

The Sudarium shows signs of then being twirled from opposite corners into a kerchief to form a long binding, then used to perhaps tie the jaws closed, passing under the chin and beard, behind the ears, then over the crown of the head, where it was tied to keep the jaw closed in death—a known requirement of Jewish burial practices.

In other words a cloth that was wrapped "about" or "around" the "head"/"face" (also words that are proper translations for the Greek word being translated), both of which are alternative meanings of the Greek word being translated. . . and would have been pulled off and discarded in a separate place as a resurrected Jesus walks away from the Shroud and other cloths, left lying in place.

The ONLY cloth that meets the Jewish traditional burial practice would be the kerchief rolled cloth for the binding of the JAW, not a separate face covering. . . which was only used if there were no other body covering according to the writings of the period. The other othonia, plural for burial cloths, would be other bindings used to keep the arms and legs from flopping out from the body, tied at the wrists and ankles, as the rigor mortis passed, and also as the processes of decomposition progressed. It was important to keep the bones as compact as possible for later collection, either to be placed in a separate bone box, an ossuary, if the family could afford one, or to be "gathered unto one's ancestors" by being tossed into a central ossuary in the middle of a family tomb with all of the previous ancestors' bones.

There is a huge gap between "reasonable representation of the Greek" and an accurate translation of the actual meaning of the Greek words with subtle understanding of what they meant in context of cultural usage.

For example, consider the following sentence:

"Thousands of Robin Williams' fans were slain in the aisles with his rapid fire improvisational ripostès to the quick jabs of the straight lines that came at him from left and right."

A future translator would be hard pressed to come to a proper interpretation without knowing

All of this would have been culturally NECESSARY for our hypothetical future translator to even begin to attempt to decipher that sentence into anything culturally comprehensible to his future society.

35 posted on 08/31/2015 7:49:03 PM PDT by Swordmaker ( This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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