Posted on 07/26/2015 8:55:19 AM PDT by MHGinTN
Thanks—I won’t miss it though ;)
I posted the text.
IF you choose not to read it; it ain't my fault.
That is true, but as in His first Incarnate coming, it will be in two stages. In His Entrance as the Servant, the first stage was in privacy, to His family and friends--Mary, Joseph, Elizabeth, Zachariah, His angels, the shepherds they invited, Anna, Simeon, and wise men from Anatolia.
The second stage, hinted by his counsel at the bar mitzvah stage, with the men of the Sanhedrin, but fully inaugurated at His Baptism by Cousin John, that righteousness night be fulfilled, and to augment John's message who was preaching that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand, and to publicly introduce the Savior to the lost sheep of Israel. Subsequent to the death of the prophet John Baptist, the Kingdom of Heaven was no longer available to the Jewish nation. From then on, Jesus preached the Kingdom of The God only. That stage consisted of about three and a half years, a period of peace offered.
Then Jesus went back to His Heaven/Paradise, to reassume all His Eternal Royal Prerogatives as The Begotten Son of The Father. In that role He is to return as the Ruler of The Heavens and The Earth, and that Second coming will be likewise in two stages, the first of which again is private, to His Bride and Her Friends, who as well are His subjects and possession, to reclaim and retrieve all that part of which He has ransomed and which was given to him by The Father, the souls, spirits, and bodies, lock, stock, and barrel, with nothing left behind except that which was consigned to the temporal earthbound sphere. That event will be the harpadzo, the snatching-away into the spiritual dimension. The event is mentioned of all those obliged to Him, in Hebrews 9:28:
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (That is, apart from dealing with the Sin principle).
In the second stage, the Wounded and Wedded Warrior will appear, coming through the clouds, and all mankind shall see Him, publically coming to tread the wine-press of His avenging wrath, starting on earth at Basra (Is. 63:1-6) coming up through Edom and unto Jerusalem (Rev. 14:19,20). There will He judge the nations, and establish His Kingdom of Heaven on the earth, to rule it in the New Millennium.
This is the basic plan, as you most probably know well, BG. This is really just to rehearse this principle of Two comings, with two stages--first a private scenario, then a public one--in each Coming.
Thanks for your patience!
Excellent insight! Everyone, please note this!
This sense of "the last trump" in 1 Cor. 15:52 does not mean that this is referring to the last angel-sounded trumpet ever in all eternity. It only refers to the last trumpet call that that wraps up a certain pattern of events.
In a day in the Army, where certain bugle calls announced certain events of the day, the first trumpet used to be "Reveille," and the last call was "Taps." The sounding of "Taps" did not mean that the activities of the Army were done with, forever.
Or as you point out, the last trumpet for one year's Feast of Trumpets in the Jewish calendar. The 1 Cor. 15:52 can refer only to the souls saved of God, not the children of Satan.
Throughout history, there have been many prophecies that remained mysterious until they were partially or fully fulfilled. One of them was the dream shown by God to Nebuchadnezzar and interpreted by Daniel, of the gold, silver, brass, iron, and iron/clay picture that we are still living out.
The seventieth week of Daniel's vision was not seen clearly until seen by 18th-19th century Bible students. Not comprehended by earlier scholars and translators doesn't make these later seen truths wrong.
It only makes those who can't be taught as being closed-minded by their exclusive dependence on the philosophies of fallible dull humans, rather than on the truths of the Scriptures found by Spirit-illuminated believers.
But thanks for your support of this clear application of Paul's Gospel imparted by His tutor, Christ.
Thank you for adding to the thread. The more ways it gets said, with little added bits, the clearer it becomes for those who have ears to hear. Maranatha
These things are spiritually discerned, shown by God to those who are His and foolishness to others. Usually. You might want to study out the theme of "progressive revelation" as His plan was continuously rolled out, and still containing applications not understood by those not open to Spiritual guidance.
Clouds of people.
No. The context is the literal use of cloud, which is the context of Mt. 24:30 and Mk. 13:26, and as understood by the Sanhedrin in His trial (Mt. 26:64, Mk. 14:62) and not in the figurative sense of Heb. 12:1. This is not a metaphor, and cannot be taken so in this context.
...to meet the Lord in the air:...
"Air" is the "spirit" in the Strong's.
Sorry, in this it is not "spirit" in Strong's Dictionary of his Concordance, nor is it "spirit" anywhere in the Authorized Version. It is never used in the figurative sense. In this, your claim is absolutely wrong:
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From Strong's Concordance:
Strong's No. G109
ἀήρ
aēr
ah-ayr'
From ἄημι aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow); “air” (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.
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Furthermore, "spirit" even if correct (and it is not) would be a figurative translation of a word which in context must be translated literally. That is very poor interpretation, as you have done in the next:
...and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Again, this is at the Seventh Trump, when Satan is defeated and locked up for a thousand years.
This is entirely presuming that the Seventh Trump of Rev. 11:15 has any connection with the trumpet of this context. Even the contexts are not the same.
I just don't believe your hypothesis here can be given any serious recognition, because it is eisegesis, not exegesis, and even then forced.
The correct frame of mind is given in the next chapter, verses 9 and 10:
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."
Not His tribulational wrath, because of the imputation of Christ's righteousness, and certainly not of Satan's. Furthermore, I believe the salvation mentioned here is not only the cetification of it by entrance into His Kingdom through justification by faith, but the realization of it by the saving through joining Him in the clouds in the new spiritual body. Anything else than that is not much of a salvation, is it?
It is, and it has been discussed here before amd proven, so put away your blanks. Play cowboy someplace else.
You've got the wrong words. The words that apply are
harpadzo in the Greek,
translated by Jerome as
rapiemur in the Vulgate,
and Anglicized as "rapture" in the common parlance of the discussion of Scripture.
In the KJV it is translated as "caught up" in 1 Thess. 4:17, but as "pluck out" in Jn. 10:28 and 29. An equally useful meaning gives the sense "to snatch away."
Some training in Greek might benefit your misadventures in handling Scripture. Let me suggest that you at least examine the Introduction lesson at Bible Truths which is quite excellent for getting your feet wet in the language spoken by the Holy Ghost.
Amen and Ayyyy-mennn.
Exactly...There are things in that book that no one understands...They will be revealed to the people they are intended for when they become applicable to those people...
But the people who stayed behind still died. In the flood millions. and only few, that is eight, were saved, and that not in the water, but out of it.
My ear brother, I have checked this out, and nowhere in Strong's concordance, or Thayer's Lexicon, or Roget's Thesaurus, or in Sisson's Synonyms do I find anything that equates the Greek apostasia, our term "apostasy," with anything about the kind of "departure" your interpretation demands. Apostasy/aposrasia is always translated as having the sense of turning from that which is good and right towards that which is wrong and unmoral: deviation from rectitude, perfidy, heterodoxy, seceding from the true religion, divorcement. Its converse is repentance, of turning to God from idols, so to speak. The definition of apostasy carries with it moral terpitude.
It is not just a movement of a person from here to there, for which the process of leaving would be interpreted as departure. So It is not very likely at all that the "falling away" of 2 Thess 2:3 would be interpreted in any sense as being anything but firm and permanent disloyalty and departure from God's ways. And it is always at the instigation of the apostate himself actively.
It can have nothing to do with the passive yielding to the summons of Christ to pluck us up to meet Him in the air.
So I think you'd better give up that line of reasoning as to the use of that verse to support the harpadzo. In any case, it is not needed for the spiritually mature discerning believer anyway, and arguing further about it is simply not profitable.
In the end, it is always going to boil down to salvation by faith or salvation by works. So when we see the drift of someone being other than simple inquisitiveness and desire to learn, it is economical to just decline to bandy words about it, and get on to someone else who wishes to know more about Jesus. Eh?
Job_2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
So much for that hypothesis --
You keep picking the wrong words wich would translaye to “rapture”
Thanks for the challenge. I'm just not going to be able to advise anyone "left behind."
High-five on that!
Are you saying the Nephilim were not fallen angels?
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