This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
Locked on 07/23/2015 5:47:09 PM PDT by Jim Robinson, reason:
some people refuse to get it |
Posted on 07/21/2015 4:48:44 PM PDT by Salvation
Upon this I fully agree, subject to any input from the site owner, of course.
that will generate civil debate
This is sometimes found ...
and even heated rhetoric
Pretty much guaranteed ...
... pure sarcasm, snark and have nothing to do with honest discussion.
Also guaranteed, which was my original point.
In my opinion, as a 12-year FR member, nothing could be expected in response to the original article, other than what occurred. That doesn't mean the article shouldn't be posted, of course: I was just very surprised at the ping implying that some other outcome could have reasonably been expected.
Don’t mess with us Dominicans, is all I’m saying.
Got the stake, got the wood, got the marshmallows....
Only if I were not in control of my body and I took no responsibility of my actions.
But a born again believer IS in control of his or her body with the strength of the Holy Spirit to avoid sin.
By murder, I’m presuming that you are talking about the premeditated kind, as opposed to unintentional, as in self-defense or an accident.
Ahem, King David was a murderer, and premeditated at that. As was Moses. Both after they know God.
So you tell me.
MayFlowerMadam,
My sincerest apologies. I thought I replied to bramps’ post. I don’t know how I replied to you instead....please forgive the intrusion.
I'm not going to heaven again. I'm STILL going to heaven.
But what if you sin like that multiple times a day, as most people do, even if the sins are minor (a concept I know you dont believe in, but humor me).
I don't know you, so I'm just speculating here. Disclaimer: I am not accusing, nor reading your mind. This is a scenario, strictly for the sake of discussion.
Supposing you are married and had children........
What would happen if they violated one of the household rules? How would it be handled?
Do you or would you disown your children every time they disobey you? Do you or would you write them out of your will for every infraction? Do they or would they have to come groveling back, begging for forgiveness, promising to work it off to show how sorry they are?
Do you or would you divorce your wife every time she does something against you? Do you or would you kick her out and change the locks on the door every time? Do you or would you give her the new key and remarry her when she comes back begging for forgiveness, doing *penance* to show how sorry she is for having offended you?
Do you or would you require restitution from the ones who you claim to love in order for them to be in your good graces again? And if they don't, then what? Do you or would you abandon them until they do it *right*?
Is that a love relationship? Is that true forgiveness from the heart? Does forgiveness even demand restitution? Or is it the canceling of the debt, no string attached?
Would you consider that a healthy relationship?
Good morning, FRiend. Always nice to see you!
The Catholic Church has both saints and sinners. Jesus taught sinners so that they could have eternal life with Him and some did and some didn’t like Judas and those that didn’t believe in the Real Presence.
Certainly, the Catholic church continues to have sinners, even Popes just like Judas one of the Apostles.
The Catholic Church also continues the sacred traditions taught by Jesus and Apostles that were oral teachings and not written in the Bible.
What is Tradition?
In this discussion it is important to keep in mind what the Catholic Church means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.
They have been handed down and entrusted to the Churchs. It is necessary that Christians believe in and follow this tradition as well as the Bible (Luke 10:16). The truth of the faith has been given primarily to the leaders of the Church (Eph. 3:5), who, with Christ, form the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). The Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit, who protects this teaching from corruption (John 14:25-26, 16:13).
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/scripture-and-tradition
http://www.mark-shea.com/tradition.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1848218/posts
An excellent source for Catholic information from Salvation:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2567980/posts
This should really help you with the details ...
Post #50 is not controversy or argument. It is abuse (albeit pretty funny abuse. Personally, I’m distraught that I’ve been spelling Tiffani wrong all these years. No wonder I’m still overweight.)
In the midst of all this conversation about free will, mercy, grace, and love, the saints cannot avoid abuse?
Does that concern no one?
He didn't...That's just 'their' ultimate goal here on FR.
Hi! Is all well?
Are you saying this isnt true?
Do you think 2 Cor 5: 16 is a get out of judgement card?
You have to let the words sink in as you read those scriptures...The person is NOT being judged...It is the person's works that are being judged...
The bad works get burned up...They don't show up in heaven...It is only the good works that appear on your record in heaven...And these good works determine what crowns you get in heaven...
This is a judgment of Jesus Christ...There are ONLY Christians there...There are no unbelievers at this judgment...
“...It’s a different, and far more vexatious, question to see if we have understood the texts correctly...”
Well Said!! This is the essential issue on most of these threads that end up in fruitless “debate”. Scripture proof texts are requested from Catholics to back up our position; we provide them and they are simply ignored - re- provided, ignored; asked for, provided, ignored, and asked for again as if they hadn’t been provided!
The issue at hand IS interpretation as you rightly point out, not lack of Catholic proof texts, which is the implication when scripture is requested. Scripture is always provided by one or another of the Catholic apologists here and then always ignored if another (perfectly reasonable) interpretation is presented that is not agreed with. The disgreement is automatic and based upon opinion of interpretation alone.
Thank you for being a voice of reason here.
One last thing - the entire article that was posted is full of scripture to back up its position and yet scripture is requested by the responders to the article as if the article contained none. (not directed towards you - just pointing out the obvious in a general sense)
Yet, all sin has the same consequence. Death.
All sin kills and all sin damns.
And all sin has the same cure. The blood of Jesus.
All sin requires forgiveness to be dealt with.
“Scripture proof texts are requested from Catholics to back up our position; we provide them and they are simply ignored - re- provided, ignored; asked for, provided, ignored, and asked for again as if they hadnt been provided!”
I’m surprised that Catholics even request Scripture proofs. My best friend and her hubby (ex priest) have told us many times they don’t believe the Bible generally. If the Pope or a priest dictates something that contradict the Bible, it takes precedence over anything in the Bible. They’re very clear about that.
I find it ironic.
Catholics seem to think that Protestants take sin too lightly, claiming often that we think we can sin with impunity and get a free pass, and yet when we talk about the seriousness of sin, even little white lies, suddenly we’re lectured on how some sin isn’t as bad as others.
So what’s with that?
I’ve gone through and read many of the post. I’ve just got to add a few thoughts.
Jesus is sittin on His throne, looking/listening to all this and just shaking His head....they still don’t get it.
The father of lies sole goal is to divide the church, from within. He has done a great job as evidenced on this thread.
First, I’d like to say, scripture does not cover every single aspect of the human condition, I’ll explain in a bit.
All sin is detestable to an infinately Holy G_d. He is so holy, that no sin can reside in His presense.
Is there some sin that is more detestable than others? Sure there is. Just as one poster eluded to cursing a golf shot as opposed to say...homosexual behavior or divorce/remarriage or murder of an innocent.
Example: A pastor of a church counsels a young person, then grooms that young person for a period of time with the intent to sexually abuse the child. I believe scripture supports that this person, a spiritual leader in the church has committed sins that G_d has deemed as having a higher penalty than say, stealing an energy drink from a store.
This pastor sexually abused a child. This pastor abused his spiritual authority in a way as to deceive this child and perhaps continued in his ministry for years deceiving the body of Christ. I believe scripture points to an even harsher penalty for this person on the day of judgement, unless of course this pastor confesses, repents and seeks to amend his life. So, who would he confess to? First to our Almighty Father, then to his congregation, perhaps a counselor (secular or spiritual based) and or the child. Right?
Apologize for the length of this. Now, this deals with the spiritual leader than abused the child. Let’s move to the child.
The child had his/her innocense stolen. Because of this man’s sin, this child grows up wounded, dysfunctional in many areas of his/her life. To kill the pain of what happened to them, often times they will begin abusing drugs/alcohol. Many cases the child will grow up with trust issues, relationship issues, anger issues. A whole host of tragic symptoms such as self mutilation, becoming abusers themselves, depression, serial marriages/divorce brought on by the abuse as a child. This is real stuff folks.
Whether the abuse happened at the hands of a school coach, teacher, priest, pastor or family member...the child is no less wounded..then grows up as an adult, wounded.
Now, here is the question. Because satan perverted lives of humans/G_d’s created, is there no forgiveness for the abuser? Is there no forgiveness for the child/now adult for sins comitted brought on as a result of the abuse?
satan comes to steal, kill and destroy. Roams like a lion searching for those to devour. G_d knows this.
All sins are forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. This includes divorce/remarriage. This includes perversion. This includes abusing a child. I do believe in my heart of hearts that sins against a child are particularly detestable to G_d.
We need to focus on the essentials of the Christian faith and stop arguing over who is right/wrong in regards to theological dogma...on either side, protestant/catholic.
This is a spiritual battle folks. We war against the flesh, the devil and the world. Three very formidable enemies to our spirit.
The father of LIES, has done a splendid job of dividing the faithful. G_d is more merciful than we give credit.
Thoughts y’all? Be kind and rewind. lol
It concerns me, which is why I generally avoid threads where it happens.
And we're all fine, thanks for asking. I'm off to The Salvation Army for half-off day, and then I'll be picking up a filthy, malodorous boy from Webelos Adventure Camp.
I hope you're in good health and otherwise chipper, too!
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