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1 posted on 06/13/2015 12:57:46 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Gamecock; HossB86; Iscool; ...

History ping


2 posted on 06/13/2015 12:58:15 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

bump


4 posted on 06/13/2015 1:09:00 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: RnMomof7

Infallibility means whatever the Catholic Church wants it to mean. If you are a Catholic, you accept that on faith and obedience. If you’re not a Catholic, it doesn’t apply to you.


10 posted on 06/13/2015 1:20:22 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: RnMomof7

Hard to believe this really happened, but it did.

14 posted on 06/13/2015 1:45:29 PM PDT by SkyPilot ("I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6)
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To: RnMomof7
But there is one problem: nobody knows when the Pope is speaking infallibly, nobody knows how often a pope has spoken infallibly, and nobody knows what the criteria are for when a pope is speaking infallibly.

That's funny, because Vatican I taught (infallibly, BTW):

Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, for the glory of God Our Savior, the exaltation of the Catholic Religion, and the salvation of Christian people, the Sacred Council approving, We teach and define that it is a divinely-revealed dogma: that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex Cathedra, that is, when in discharge of the office of Pastor and Teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the Universal Church, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer willed that His Church should be endowed for defining doctrine regarding faith or morals: and that therefore such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church.

Looks like some pretty clear qualifications to me. The Pope has to be (a) speaking in his supreme authority as "Pastor and Teacher of All Christians," (b) he has to be defining (that is, teaching definitively), (c) to the whole church, (d) a doctrine concerning faith or morals.

With regard to Ordinatio Sacerdotalis this "Brian Cones at US Catholic" Kauffman quotes is clearly clueless. (Isn't "US Catholic" some kind of liberal rag? I'm not familiar with it.)

Infallible documents don't have to contain the word "infallible," and Cardinal Ratzinger was not claiming that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was infallible because he said so, he was saying that it was not an exercise of the (technical term) "extraordinary Papal magisterium" because it was already infallibly known that women cannot be ordained before either he or JP2 came on the scene.

18 posted on 06/13/2015 2:47:29 PM PDT by Campion
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To: RnMomof7
And yet all Protestant and Protestant derived doctrine makes the assertion that individual infallibility is a common as dirt and available to anyone who has said the magic words before reading Scripture for themselves.

What Protestantism asserts, Protestants deny exists. Go figure.

20 posted on 06/13/2015 2:52:05 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: RnMomof7

My favorite Pope! VERY serious about this work!


24 posted on 06/13/2015 3:18:37 PM PDT by Vesparado (The American people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard --- HL Mencken)
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To: RnMomof7

INFALLIBILITY

 

Freedom from error in teaching the universal Church in matters of faith or morals. As defined by the First Vatican Council, "The Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra—that is, when in discharge of the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals; and therefore such definitions are irreformable of themselves, and not in virtue of consent of the Church" (Denzinger 3074).

The bearer of the infallibility is every lawful Pope as successor of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. But the Pope alone is infallible, not others to whom he delegates a part of his teaching authority, for example, the Roman congregations.

The object of his infallibility is his teaching of faith and morals. This means especially revealed doctrine like the Incarnation. But it also includes any nonrevealed teaching that is in any way connected with revelation.

The condition of the infallibility is that the Pope speaks ex cathedra. For this is required that: 1. he have the intention of declaring something unchangeably true; and 2. he speak as shepherd and teacher of all the faithful with the full weight of his apostolic authority, and not merely as a private theologian or even merely for the people of Rome or some particular segment of the Church of God.

The source of the infallibility is the supernatural assistance of the Holy Spirit, who protects the supreme teacher of the Church from error and therefore from misleading the people of God.

As a result, the ex cathedra pronouncements of the Pope are unchangeable "of themselves," that is, not because others in the Church either first instructed the Pope or agree to what he says. (Etym. Latin in-, not + fallibilis; from fallere, to deceive: infallibilis, not able to deceive, or err.)

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.


28 posted on 06/13/2015 4:33:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RnMomof7

EPISCOPAL INFALLIBILITY

 

Preservation from error of the bishops of the Catholic Church. They are infallible when all the bishops of the Church are assembled in a general council or, scattered over the earth, they propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to be held by all the faithful. They are assured freedom from error provided they are in union with the Bishop of Rome and their teaching is subject to his authority. The scope of this infallibility, like that of the Pope, includes not only revealed truths but any teaching, even historical facts, principles of philosophy, or norms of the natural law that are in any way connected with divine revelation.

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

 


29 posted on 06/13/2015 4:34:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RnMomof7
The Papacy in Scripture – More Than Matthew 16
EXPLAINING THE IDEA OF INFALLIBILITY [Catholic Caucus]
Infallibility
Papal Infallibility: A Symbolic, Yet Problematic, Term
Essays for Lent: Papal Infallibility
Radio Replies Second Volume - Infallibility
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Infallibility: The Magisterium
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Truth Handling: Infallibility
Radio Replies First Volume - Infallibility

Infallible Infallibility
Docility (on Catholic dogma and infallibility)
Beginning Catholic: Infallibility: Keeping the Faith [Ecumenical]
Papal Infallibility [Ecumenical]
Peter & Succession (Understanding the Church Today)
Pope: may all recognize true meaning of Peter’s primacy
THE PRIMACY OF THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER IN THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH
Pope St. Leo the Great and the Petrine Primacy
The Epiphany of the Roman Primacy
THE PRIMACY OF THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER IN THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH [Ratzinger]

30 posted on 06/13/2015 4:35:43 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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