Posted on 04/15/2015 6:11:34 PM PDT by NRx
Father Patrick Reardon, pastor of All Saints Antiochian Orthodox Church in Chicago, has just released the following statement:
"Because the State of Illinois, through its legislature and governor’s office, have now re-defined marriage, marriage licenses issued by agencies of the State of Illinois will no longer be required (or signed) for weddings here at All Saints in Chicago.
Those seeking marriage in this parish will be counseled on the point.
Father Pat"
(Excerpt) Read more at theamericanconservative.com ...
so three men and a dog could conceivably now be married by father patty???
“so three men and a dog could conceivably now be married by father patty???”
Reading, or at least glancing at the article is always advisable before posting inflammatory comments that could cause people to question your IQ.
Fr. Pat is an Orthodox priest who is sending a message to the state of Illinois that he is not kow towing to their redefinition of marriage.
Im sorry I was unable to properly read his rather nebulous use of the english language
This doesn’t accomplish anything and he could have done this 5 years ago, or 50 years ago, or 100 years ago, or at any time.
If you don’t care if your marriage is legal, then don’t seek legality.
Fr. Pat, I believe, is telling the state he will continue to perform marriages between one man and one woman only - the traditional definition.
his rather sardonic manner of communicating that fact,,,escaped my grasp.
id have been far less kind and polite....
“so three men and a dog could conceivably now be married by father patty???”
From your response may assume you are mentally challenged? I’m not putting down people with your affliction. Just wanting to clarify things...
Good for him. Probably should have happened long ago. It’s a visible sign that what the Church means by marriage and what the state mean are simply two separate things.
At least some states have laws against someone performing a marriage ceremony who is licensed by the state without involving the state. At least that’s the reason that is sometimes given why it can’t be done for those who wish to marry without state sanction.
FReegards
the mans statementwas not quite ready for prime time and rather easily misunderstood
it could have been meant to say that it doesnt matter who wants to marry who so dont even GET an “official” certificate!!
see how that works?
“it could have been meant to say that it doesnt matter who wants to marry who so dont even GET an “official” certificate!!”
But it didn’t mean that and you should have known it if you had half a brain...
Only by someone who has a reading comprehension problem.
It is self evident that he will no linger be presiding over LEGAL marriages, only Sacramental marriages within the Church. The couples will be required to file their own legal marriage certificates at the court house with the Justice of the Peace.
Actually sounds like what they do in Germany, and for all I know elsewhere in Europe.
Marriage is a two step process:
1. Have a civil service/legal marriage at city hall.
2. Have a church service before God.
Not sure what the order is.
I think this is a proper and clear use of the separation of POWERS of Church and State.
This is what our fore fathers were concerned about. Not the separation of Church and State, but a separation of CONTROL and POWER.
The priest mentioned in the article said he would neither require nor sign a marriage license. This implies - he could have emphasized it, but why bother? - that the only factors that matter to him, regarding marriage, are those of his religion.
Thus, he would perform a ceremony for a couple without a license, if they met the criteria of his church. He would not perform a ceremony for a couple who did not meet the criteria, even if they had a state license. This would certainly affect same-sex couples, but would also include some divorced people, depending on individual circumstances.
Yes, a mere state marriage license is not sufficient grounds for any Orthodox priest to perform a marriage. Besides having very limited acceptable grounds for divorce with permission to remarry (only the innocent party in a divorce on the basis of cause recognized under Orthodox canon law could remarry, and then only with the Rite of Second (or Third) Marriage, which has a more penitential character than the usual marriage rite), Orthodox canon law has much stricter prohibitions on consanguineous marriage than any state’s secular laws (including regarding the relationship between godparents and godchildren as establishing a bond of consanguinity, and forbidding marriages between persons within, and forbidding marriages between persons of seven degrees of consanguinity or closer — not only no first cousin marriages, but marriages are not even permitted between second cousin or second cousins once removed!), and an absolute prohibition on fourth marriages, even in the event of repeated widowhood.
Father Patrick is one of the very fine Orthodox priests who converted to Holy Orthodoxy from Anglicanism, and though American by birth, retains a British sense of understatement.
Father Patrick is one of the very fine Orthodox priests who converted to Holy Orthodoxy from Anglicanism, and though American by birth, retains a British sense of understatement.
Ah, does anybody know when it was, historically, that the state(s) took it upon themselves to certify the legality of marriage? Maybe to prevent bigamy behaviors and inheritance problems?
Licenses first appeared about 800 years ago, but all they did was replace or give an option to place a notice called the bann or get a license which was sometimes quicker and easier.
Marriage has always had to be legal, in all cultures, whether it was a government law, or a government religion law (or tribal law).
In the colonies licenses started spreading in the 1600s. Thomas Jefferson was married with a license, George Washington bought a license for his nephew.
Here is something on the Virginia colony.
“An act in 1628 forbade marriages
“without lycence or asking in
church.” In 1632, in the same group
of acts that empowered church
wardens to collect penalties of one
shilling for each unexcused absence
from church and that required ministers
to preach one sermon every
Sunday, it was stated that “noe
mynister shall celebrate matrymony
betweene any persons without a
facultie or lycense graunted by the
Governor except the banes of
matrymony have beene first published
three severall Sondayes or
holidayes” in a church located where
the parties lived.”
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