Posted on 04/09/2015 8:22:13 AM PDT by Salvation
Nothing we can do will ever be *enough*. That's why Jesus had to die.
One sin damns us and the wages of sin is death, a debt we cannot pay by our works.
If we lives an otherwise perfect life except for that one sin, without forgiveness through the death of Jesus we would still go to hell.
We cannot redeem ourselves and cannot do it by our works.
Do you understand the purpose of works in the life of the Christian, the saved person?
Because we are declared just by the court of heaven, having the record of our debt to God being canceled, and the righteous life and deeds of Jesus being credited to our account.
Once we are declared righteous by God, we are saved.
If someone who claims to have put their trust in Christ for salvation or who even merely claims to believe in God is going to hell, they are not saved.
No saved person goes to hell. Hell is what we're being saved from.
You can't be saved (from hell) and end up going there.
If they think that someone who is saved is going to hell, I'd sure love to know what the heck the saved person is then saved from.
Ok, we agree on that.
OK. So then if our works aren’t good enough to save us, then why do them?
What of St.Paul making up in his body what was lacking in the suffering of Christ? How do you interpret that?
Does your logic absolve you from doing good works, simply put of compassion, or because it's the right thing to do? Would you have passed the man by, or helped him?
According to your interpretation, no.
The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus died for all men. Without His Death, NO ONE could be able to live forever with God in Heaven.
This is an opportunity for all. Our circumstances, beliefs, obedience, prayer, chances to know, love and serve God AND OUR NEIGHBOR are all factored in when we die and appear before God in our particular judgement.
Do you think the prophets, patriarchs and men of God will in the OT are in heaven? Or are they not "saved?" Saved to a Catholic means you're safe from hell in purgatory or in heaven with God.
The way many arguments are worded here shows "saved" as claiming to believe in St. Paul's epistles, according to each persons own interpretation.
There was NO other religion. Everyone was Catholic.
Show it from Scripture.
Where is the word *Catholic* found?
I have never been sure, but it isn't for salvation.
When one is born again/born from above, he becomes a new creature in Christ, having the Spirit living in him giving him that life.
Works are simply the natural outflowing of that Christ life in the the born again believer.
The works are not done out of obligation. They're done because that's what Jesus, who lives in the believer, would do. It's the fruit of the Spirit being expressed or manifest in the born again be3liever's life.
Only for reward, not for salvation.
Salvation is based solely on faith in Christ.
Those who believe in Him have already passed from death into life.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Maybe you can tell me. What is the purpose of the Law? Why did God give it?
Yessirree, appealing to church fathers and claiming that all early Christians were Catholics by default sure is a logical fallacy and appeal to authority and antiquity.
You are an impossible idiot. I am done.
I won’t be baited and I’m the idiot?
And I should want to cross the Tiber for what reason again?
Your religion has twisted that verse beyond comprehension...Do you honestly think that with the beatings and pain and death Jesus went thru that it was not enough??? That Christians had to make up for it because Jesus did not suffer enough???
Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
Paul rejoices that he suffers...
and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh
Paul is glad that he is suffering, ie, his 'thorn in the flesh', going hungry at times, being beaten almost to death, etc., because his pain and suffering is so far behind what Jesus had to suffer for him and the church...
Paul is well behind in the afflictions in his flesh than Jesus was in His...Therefore he rejoices in some small way that he can be afflicted for the church's sake...
How about you read the same scripture that metmom posted and tell her from that scripture where she is wrong...
You’re here telling me that I’m wrong.
How is what you’re condemning me for any different that what anyone else does on these threads?
Oh, and BTW, I don’t go around telling people that if they aren’t (fill in the blank with my denomination) they are going to hell, as Catholicism is known to do.
Projection.
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