Posted on 03/17/2015 4:43:54 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
Amendment Center showed that 55 percent of Americans believed it already was one.
The confusion is understandable. For all our talk about separation of church and state, religious language has been written into our political culture in countless ways. It is inscribed in our pledge of patriotism, marked on our money, carved into the walls of our courts and our Capitol. Perhaps because it is everywhere, we assume it has been from the beginning.
But the founding fathers didn’t create the ceremonies and slogans that come to mind when we consider whether this is a Christian nation. Our grandfathers did.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Sorry but most of the founders were Christian. A hand full were deists. Most notable was Franklin and Jefferson. Name the founders who weren’t Christians.
Good reply to Noble.
Just as Switzerland has an international reputation for being politically neutral, the Founding States had intended for the USA, but more precisely the federal government, to be regarded as religiously neutral imo. This is evidenced by the 1st Amendment (1A) to the federal Constitution.
In fact, while Christians tend to regard Article 11 in the Treaty of Tripoli as a hoax, 1A gave members of the Senate, members who were probably Christians, the license to claim that the USA (again, the feds) are not a Christian nation. They did so probably to help negotiate that treaty, the lawmakers trying to protect US citizens traveling on the Mediterranean Sea from Muslim pirates.
"Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” — Treaty of Tripoli.
And with all due respect to mom & pop, since centuries of USA parents have evidently not been making sure that their children are being taught the Constitution as the Founding States had intended for it to be understand, particularly the division of state and federal powers, citizen are now clueless that the Founding State’s had “hidden” the religious identity of the USA with the states as evidenced by the 10th Amendment.
In fact, regardless what FDR’s thug justices wanted everybody to think about Thomas Jeffersons undeservingly infamous “wall of separation,” the real Thomas Jefferson had clarified that the states had made the 10th Amendment in part to reserve government power to regulate religious expression uniquely to themselves, regardless that they had also make 1A to clarify that such powers are prohibited to Congress.
“3. Resolved that it is true as a general principle and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the constitution that ‘the powers not delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively or to the people’: and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, & were reserved, to the states or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated rather than the use be destroyed [emphasis added]; …” —Thomas Jefferson, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.
Here’s a related excerpt from Jefferson’s writings which references religion.
“In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies.” — Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805.
Note that the Founders did not try to hide “government” power to regulate religion in the state governments. But since the division of federal and state powers is no longer being taught, citizens don’t understand that it is the states, not the feds, who can officially identify with Christianity to the extent that the legal majority voters of a given state let them, and as long as the states respect peoples’ 14th Amendment protections.
uh....
1620 at Plymouth Rock
and
1776 at the Founding
The secular movement didn’t gain a foothold until the Wilson era.
Roe v Wade was a turning point.
Selections below are quotes from http://undergod.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=69
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Chapter VI. Article I. Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:
'I _______, do declare that I believe the Christian religion...'"
Massachusetts Constitution
1780
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Article XXXV. That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion."
Maryland State Constitution
1776
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"Article 22. Every person who shall be chosen a member of either House, or appointed to any office or place of trust... shall take the following oath:
'I _______, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, One God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old Testament and New Testament to be given by Divine Inspiration.'
Delaware State Constitution
1776
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Article V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship GOD according to the dictates of his own conscience and reason; and no person shall be hurt, molested, or restrained in is person, liberty, or estate for worshipping God in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession, sentiments, or persuasion; provided he doth not disturb the public peace or disturb others in their religious worship.
Senate. Provided, nevertheless, That no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion...
House of Representatives. Every member of the house of representatives... shall be of the Protestant religion...
President. [H]e shall be of the Protestant religion."
New Hampshire Constitution
1784
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Ist. That there is one eternal God, and a future state of rewards and punishments.
2d. That God is publicly to be worshipped.
3d. That the Christian religion is the true religion.
4th. That the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are of divine inspiration, and are the rule of faith and practice.
5th That it is lawful and the duty of every man being thereunto called by those that govern, to bear witness to the truth."
South Carolina Constitution
1778
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I totally disagree with everything you said.
Looks like you've got plenty of company.
The year of our Lord, they aren't talking about Gaia, Buddha, Shiva, Vishnu or Ganesha, Zeus, Odin or Allah, they were were talking about the Christian God and the year Anno Domini.
If you’re really interested in finding out the real truth, you might want to consider Rush Limbaugh’s new series about the Pilgrims, the Settlers, and the Founders.
Although he wrote them for children, more and more people have called in to let him know they have been reading the books too; and loving it.
I’m really enjoying reading them. I remember a lot of it from school (yes, they really taught the truth way back then); but there were a few things that I didn’t know too.
But, don’t sit around and feel bad - just get the Limbaugh books and find out what you’ve been missing. And, if you have children, you can get the books as an excuse; then read them to your children - and voila! You’ll find out the truth!
More than that -- our country was overwhelmingly Protestant Christian (if you count Baptists and Quakers as Protestant). It is essentially liberal Roman Catholic and Jewish immigration that has forced the nanny-state concept to displace individual self-reliance as the founding model. IMHO from the records.
“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity.”
- John Adams
“...the confusions that are and have been among the nations may be overruled by the promoting and speedily bringing in the holy and happy period when the kingdoms of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and the people willingly bow to the scepter of Him who is the Prince of Peace.”
_ Samuel Adams
“...confess before God their aggravated transgressions and to implore His pardon and forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ”
- Josiah Bartlett
“...the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost – be ascribed all honor and dominion, forevermore – Amen”
- Gunning Bedford
“Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned”
- Elias Boudinot
“...don’t forget to be a Christian”
_ Jacob Broom
“Grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ Our Lord, He had conferred on my beloved country in her emancipation and on myself in permitting me, under circumstances of mercy, to live to the age of 89 years, and to survive the fiftieth year of independence, adopted by Congress on the 4th of July 1776, which I originally subscribed on the 2d day of August of the same year and of which I am now the last surviving signer.”
- Charles Carroll
“Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity”
- John Dickinson
“I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty Who gave it, in humble hopes of His mercy through our Savior Jesus Christ.”
- Gabriel Duvall
“s to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.
- Benjamin Franklin
“...let us contemplate the blessings which have flowed from the unlimited grave and favor of offended Deity, that we are still permitted to enjoy the first of Heaven’s blessings: the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
- Elbridge Gerry
“...a mes¬sage was sent informing me of the sad event, accompanied by a request from General Hamilton that I would come to him for the purpose of administering the Holy Communion.”
- Rev. Benjamin Moore, speaking of Alexander Hamilton’s request in the hours after being shot by Aaron Burr. Hamiton’s death cut short Hamilton his proposal for the creation of the Christian Constitutional Society, and listed two goals for its formation: first, the support of the Christian religion; and second, the support of the Constitution of the United States.
He called on the entire State of Massachusetts to pray “that universal happiness may be established in the world [and] that all may bow to the scepter of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the whole earth be filled with His glory.”
- John Hancock
“Being a Christian… is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast.”
- Patrick Henry
“...we may obtain forgiveness through the merits and mediation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ”
- Samuel Huntington
“Mercy and grace and favor did come by Jesus Christ, and also that truth which verified the promises and predictions concerning Him and which exposed and corrected the various errors which had been imbibed respecting the Supreme Being, His attributes, laws, and dispensations.”
- John Jay
“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.”
- Thomas Jefferson
“I give and bequeath my soul to Almighty God that gave it me, hoping that through the meritorious death and passion of our Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ to receive absolution and remission for all my sins.”
- George Mason
“You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ.”
- George Washington
There’s more if you care to learn:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755#FN1
Can you help me find a link to the SCOTUS ruling so I can bookmark and use.
Thanks.
The case is Church of the Holy Trinity v. U.S., 143 U.S. 157 (1892).
The opinion can be found here:
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/143/457/case.html
The court’s discussion of the history of the U.S. and how we are a Christian nation can be found at pages 465-471 of the opinion. This case has basically been “disappeared” by the modern atheist crowd.
Thank you sir.
Realize I got the cite wrong, it is 143 U.S. 457 (1892).
Thanks. . .the link worked and that was what matteres most to me.
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