CBear, you are a FR warrior, mighty good at debating, a formidable opponent of the Papists, etc., on these threads. However, that is not what I am doing here. If that is what I wanted to do, I’d be throwing stuff back in your teeth. But I’m trying to talk heart to heart with you about things dear to both of us. Apparently, you can’t see that.
Making the first horseman the first of the end time wrath of God, is indeed essential to you, and the pretrib system, and you know it.
You have yet to say anything about the seals being based on Jesus in the olivet discourse. If you reject that, just say so, then we’ll drop this, and we can both move on.
No need “to beat a dead horse,” pun intended.
Um...what? What makes you think I can't see that?
>>Making the first horseman the first of the end time wrath of God, is indeed essential to you<<
No, it's not. Nor is it essential to when the rapture happens. When the wrath of God begins and when the rapture happens are not connected per se. But, if you believe that the first seals are not from God you must ascertain and explain where they are from.
>>and the pretrib system, and you know it.<<
Nope, as I explained above. Neither you nor I can say when within that seven year period the first seal is opened.
>>You have yet to say anything about the seals being based on Jesus in the olivet discourse.<<
The Olivet discourse covers a large amount of time. It covers the time before the seven years begins all the way to the battle of Armageddon when Christ returns to defeat the armies of Satan.
>>If you reject that, just say so, then we’ll drop this, and we can both move on.<<
If anyone tells you where within the Olivet discourse or even within that last seven years the first seal is opened they are lying to you.
The rapture has to happen before the last seven years that God will once again be dealing with Israel exclusively as a nation. The full number of the Gentiles will have been fulfilled then Christ will call His bride, the ekklesia, to meet Him in the air. The anti Christ will then sign the peace treaty with Israel. At some point in that seven year period prior to the half way point the first seal is broken. We know that because at the 3 1/2 year mark the anti Christ is in full Satan mode and sets himself up as God in the Temple.
The only criteria for the timing of the rapture is that it must happen before the signing of the peace treaty with Israel. The wrath of God will not begin with the bride of Christ on earth.