The Mystery of Iniquity

ligonier.org ^ | December 1st, 2008 | R.C. Sproul

[Cicero]

Sorry, the answer inevitably involves free will, beginning with Satan’s choice to deny God, and Adam’s choice to eat the forbidden fruit.

Do I take it that Sproul is a Calvinist who denies that God gives man the freedom to choose? If so, then, indeed, the explanation is difficult.

Two good places to start are Milton’s “Paradise Lost” and C. S. Lewis’s “The Problem of Pain.”

[freeperbill11]

I think evil is strictly a human trait. I do not believe that evil even exists to God.

[lavaroise]

Many of my superstitious South American Christian/Catholics believe God would answer prayers for good care, when God is mostly about the resilience of good despite adversity, and that is a the realest of all gifts: ie. That of Job, Jesus etc...

there is not a prophet that did not suffer the robbing of God that occured in the Garden of Eden and doubled down with Jesus.

Want to find a good person from a bad one: simply check how they would treat God if He was omnipotent vs. how they would treat Him if He was not when He was in the flesh and just like us.

[RoosterRedux]

Philosophers such as John Stuart Mill have argued that the existence of evil demonstrates that God is either not omnipotent or not good and loving

God can be omnipotent and still permit freedom of action. Otherwise, his creation would be nothing more than robotic...and that wouldn't be interesting to God or anyone else.

Life is life because it is free to choose and act.

[RoosterRedux]

Angels have also fallen.

[Gamecock]

**Do I take it that Sproul is a Calvinist**

Yes

**who denies that God gives man the freedom to choose?**

No.
Man’s will is so corrupted he will always choose things against God’s will. But he does so freely.

[BitWielder1]

If you have only once choice you have no choice.
God knows that.
In order to exercise the free will god gave you, you need at least one other choice.

[odawg]

During Christ’s forty day temptation, Satan offered him the world and all its kingdoms. If he did not in fact own them, that would not have been a temptation and Christ would have noted it. After His resurrection, Jesus stated that all authority, in heaven and Earth, had been given to Him. Some theologians use this to suppose that God is working under legal constraints He had imposed. It will all turn out to His satisfaction.

[kosciusko51]

You do realize that there are many verses talking about God’s omnipotent knowledge and his ability to know what we are going to do even before we do them.

You will also find many verse talking about how God’s chooses those he will save.

But you will never find the term “free will” in the Bible, nor do you see an ongoing message in the Bible about man’s free will.

Man does what he does because of his nature. The natural man does not understand that which is spiritual, because it is not his nature, and therefore, will not chose what is spiritual.

Of course, you probably won’t believe me, but God already knew that...

[Cicero]

Of course, God is omniscient. He foresees how we will choose before we do. One way of putting it is that God lives in Eternity, so that all of time is Present to Him.

But the fact that God foresees how we will choose does not prevent us from choosing freely.

[kosciusko51]

But the fact that God foresees how we will choose does not prevent us from choosing freely.

Nor does it preclude Him from foreordaining our actions.

[kosciusko51]

Let me elaborate:

Judas was free to choose his path, but he chose evil, since by nature, he was a thief. But God knew and foreordained the actions of Judas down to point where Jesus said that the one who dipped after Him would betray Him.

Unless you believe Judas did not have “free will”.

[Cicero]

Well, I would use the word “foresaw” rather than “foreordained.” Because God did not MAKE Judas betray Jesus. But presumably Jesus chose Judas to be one of his disciples because He foresaw from the beginning that Judas would choose to betray Him.

[Gamecock]

Do you really think you go through life with absolute free will?

Take religion out of the equation for a second.

Can you really be anything you want? Are there some jobs you want to do and can’t? Skills? Other abilities? Why or why not? Discuss.

[metmom]

and until that time, we live in a fallen world.

That's the long and short of it.

Meanwhile the believer can take comfort in this.

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

[BitWielder1]

Do you really think you go through life with absolute free will?

Of course not. There are always limits, restrictions on what you can do.
But every once in a while you have to make a decision on something or another.
Depending on your situation and preferences the choice can go one way or the other.
You can choose wisely, or not. It's up to you.

Many of the "better" choices (by some definition) often require more effort and risk than we are willing to endure.
No I can't be anything I want but I can try.
My talents, interests, ambition and good sense will hopefully direct me to something I can do.

It's not 100% free will, one also has to be practical.
But I'm not locked in to one single path either.

[Gamecock]

** Of course not. There are always limits, restrictions on what you can do.**

Case closed.

If this is causing you read Romans 9. Paul addresses your arguments.

[Gamecock]

Amen.

[RushingWater]

Part of RC Sproul's deception:
One of the most important approaches to the problem of evil is that set forth originally by Augustine

I am amazed at how much present day false theological conclusions go back to Augustine. To begin to understand how far off Augustine was start with how he called one of God's most beautiful gifts evil in our nature.