Conversion from Roman Catholicism to Biblical Christianity

I grew up in a loving family who attended the Catholic Church regularly. Not just my immediate family, mind you(!) - but my entire family (aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc.) was Catholic! I was a regular participant and played the organ at church and also was a leader in the "folk choir" for most of my teenage years. In short - I was as "Catholic" as they come!

I never doubted my faith because I was told to just believe everything the Church taught me without question. The Pope was supreme in his authority, and the priests and nuns were to be treated as "holy" and "special" servants of God who would never teach anything not true. I remember several times, non-Catholic friends of mine would ask me if I was "saved" - I had no idea what that term really meant, but I assumed it was akin to the "Sacrament of Confirmation" in my Church, so I would always say that yes, I was saved. Many friends dropped it at that - never realizing I didn't know what they were talking about! If you have tried witnessing to a Catholic friend who says they're saved, please be sure they understand it completely, or you may be losing the chance to bring someone into the kingdom.

I also remember many non-Catholic friends asking me about some of the doctrines, such as purgatory, confession, the Pope, Mary, etc. I always would tell them, "Oh - that's in the Bible!" - but I had no idea where because we were never taught to read the Bible for ourselves, but rather to simply believe what we were told. I had no idea these teachings were not in the Bible at all - but were actually man-made beliefs that the Catholic Church had made up throughout the years. Many of the teachings they always said came straight from Christ were actually made up as late as the 1950's! But I defended my Church - I loved my Church and trusted it completely. One time a friend really pressed me about where in the Bible were the teachings about purgatory. I asked the priest about this, and was given the verse where it says something about being thrown into prison and not getting out till you've paid the last penny. I remember thinking - "THAT is where you get the whole doctrine of purgatory from??!!" I started having some doubts about that time, but just pushed it to the back of my mind.

When I was 21 years old, I had a special friend (Creg) who was a non-Catholic. He asked me about my salvation, and again I convinced him I was saved. However, the Lord wasn't going to let me get away that easily this time! I had been reading a magazine from the "Last Days Ministries", led by Keith and Melody Green, and came across some pamphlets they were offering called "The Catholic Chronicle Series". I remember thinking, "Oh, great! Finally something about MY church!" I ordered them and was thrilled when they arrived. I thought this would be great to prove my church was okay to my non-Catholic friends.

I remember that evening so well... My best friend, Wanda (also Catholic), and I sat on my bed and started reading the pamphlets excitedly. After a few minutes, we both realized the pamphlets were not "for" the Catholic Church, but rather were explaining the differences between the teachings of the Catholic Church and the Bible. Our initial reaction was, "Oh - they don't know what they're talking about!" However, we got out our "Catholic Catechism" book (which contains the teachings of the Catholic Church to educate people interested in becoming Catholic) and my Bible and started to compare them. We took each of the Keith Green pamphlets and looked up every single Bible verse he quoted and then looked the doctrine up in the Catholic Catechism book. I started to feel my heart sink. Could this be true?? Wanda got so nervous and upset that she decided to leave.

So all by myself, I spent the next several hours - until 1 or 2 in the morning - studying, reading, praying, crying, and being very confused. The next day I had planned to go with Creg to an out-of-town meeting about 2 hours away. During the trip, I had the time to tell him what was going on. I started reading the pamphlets to him, and he was amazed. "Catholics really believe THAT?" he'd ask about different doctrines mentioned in the pamphlets. I'd say, "Well - I didn't realize that's exactly what they believed, but yes - I guess they do." You see, I'd been taking the doctrines that didn't make sense to me and explaining them away by changing what they really meant. For example, the doctrine of Mary and the "Immaculate Conception" - I always assumed this meant Mary conceived JESUS "immaculately" - through the Holy Spirit. In reality, what that teaching says is that MARY herself was born "without sin". The Bible plainly states that ALL have sinned except for Jesus! Another example is when people would ask me about why we pray to Mary - I'd explain that as being the same as if I were asking a friend to pray for me - that I was just asking Mary to pray for me. However, the doctrine really states that Catholics DO pray to Mary and even that we are to go through Mary in order to "get to Jesus"!! This is totally un-Biblical. The Bible says that there is only one "mediator" between man and God - and that's Jesus Christ, not Mary, not the "Saints", not a Pope - no one else.

Creg and I talked about this the whole trip and that evening when we got back to his house, he got his family together to help me understand "true" salvation doctrines. They got out their Bibles and went through everything with me - explaining how Christ's death at Calvary paid the price for my sins and that because of that, anyone who accepts Him as their Savior is immediately brought into the Christian family and can be assured they'll go to heaven. I was totally amazed! The Catholic Church taught me that we can never be sure we're going to heaven - that it was a guessing game, depending on how good or bad we were, and whether we died "with sin on our souls" (meaning without having been to confession since sinning). They explained to me that when Christ died, He took ALL my sins away - past, present, and future - and that God wouldn't hold them against me any more. There was no way I'd die "with sin on my soul" - because Christ took them away! I was in shock, and quite upset about my Church's apparent errors, but I was also pretty excited and hopeful.

While we were looking up the Scriptures, we came across one in my Catholic Bible that said, "Unless you do penance, you shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven." They all were quite shocked and said, "That's not what that verse says at all! It says, 'Unless you REPENT, you shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven'!!" "Penance" is a Catholic term, meaning going to confession and then doing what the priest tells you to do to "make up for" your sins. "Repent", on the other hand, is an internal change that happens when we turn away from our sins and turn back to God. A totally different meaning! Creg was so upset that my Bible had such untruths that he gave me his own personal Bible and told me to read it! And I did!

That whole weekend, I kept my nose in that Bible and read pretty much the whole New Testament. It was like a light-bulb had come on in my head. Words I'd heard many times before now made perfect sense - in this new light of salvation through grace. I felt light and happy and joyous - like I'd found the truth at last - something "real"! I called Creg a few days later and said, "Creg, this is amazing! I feel like a brand-new Christian!" He said, "Jacki, you are a brand-new Christian!" I realized then that while I was following the doctrines of the Catholic Church, I had never really been a "Christian" in the true sense of the word - believing totally in Christ's sacrifice at Calvary to save me from my sins. I mean - I'd always heard from the Catholic Church that "Christ died for our sins". But it really had no meaning, if you think about it. If Christ died for our sins - then why were we forced to go to confession, do penance, attend church, follow the other sacraments, etc., etc. - in order to HOPE we were going to make it to heaven? And if Christ paid for our sins, why on earth would we still have to go to purgatory when we die to keep trying to make up for them?? Where did Christ fit into that picture? In reality, His death did me no good according to the Catholic Church - I still had to try to earn my way. But the truth was that His death did everything! There was nothing I could do to add to it. He paid the price in full. I could be assured of my salvation! The Bible even says, "I write these things unto you so that you may know you have eternal life." You can't get more plain than that! Something about this made me feel so FREE - and made me want to serve God with all my heart because of what He'd done for me.

Being a musician/composer, that day I wrote a song that expressed what I was feeling. Here are the lyrics:

The next several days were so exciting for me. I learned about the rapture and how we Christians who are still alive will be taken up to heaven to be with Jesus! I learned what heaven is going to be like through reading the book of Revelation. I never knew any of this was in the Bible! The Catholic Church actually taught that heaven was not a real "place" but rather a "state of mind"! I have to admit, I felt cheated - like the Catholic Church had kept all these marvels from me. I was so happy to have finally found the truth that I started sharing about this with my friends and family. My younger sisters and brother all were anxious to receive God's "gift of salvation" and all accepted Christ into their hearts as their Savior. That was a precious moment for me.

However, my friend Wanda was another story. She got so angry that I was saying these things about the Catholic Church that she turned her back on me. She said I was "dead" as far as she was concerned. My mother also had major problems with this - she had a very hard time believing that the Church she'd loved for more than 50 years could ever teach anything in error. I was very sad that this came between us, but I knew I had to choose between the Bible and the Church. I chose the Bible.

I was just a week away from moving to Florida to attend college, so I attended the Catholic Church before leaving. I heard words in a totally new light now, though. Words of the "Mass" that I'd heard a thousand times before and had just taken for granted - not even giving a thought to their meaning - now were so obviously anti-Biblical that I knew I couldn't continue to participate in the Catholic Church once I moved to Florida. I found a wonderful little Bible-believing church that helped me grow spiritually as a Christian. I have never looked back - never once regretted leaving the Catholic Church - never doubted that I did the right thing. I know now that every single belief I have comes straight from the Bible - I'll never again have to "defend" my beliefs with half-truths and made-up stories.

Shortly after I moved to Florida, my mother pressed me about talking to a priest to try to "straighten myself out"! I told her I would. I made an appointment with a local priest and went with my Bible in hand. He thought he was going to counsel me on the teachings of the Catholic Church. For about 5 minutes, I asked him questions like, "What does the Church teach about Mary?" and "What does the Church teach about Purgatory?" Then I asked the biggie(!) - "Does the Church teach we can know we're going to heaven?" I'll never forget what happened next! He just said, "Well...I wouldn't say we can know we're going to heaven - we can only hope that we won't die with sin on our souls." I knew then that God had opened the door for me to witness to this priest!

It was wonderful after that! I counseled HIM for about 20 minutes - going through the Bible, showing him where it says we can know we have eternal life, showing him the many verses that say our salvation is a free gift from God and that Christ's death paid the price in full for our sins so that nothing can ever separate us from the love of God again...

He was amazed! He got very excited and said, "Maybe I'll include this in my sermon next Sunday!" (He was a young priest, by the way - maybe an older one wouldn't have received these teachings in this way.) He asked if I'd come see him again and talk more about this. I said I'd love to!

However, over the next several weeks, I tried many times to contact him and was always told he either wasn't there or was busy, etc. I realized I was being "put off" and gave up. I don't know if he went to his senior priests and told them about this and they tried to quiet him down or what happened. But I do know that I at least shared the truth of God's word with him and that maybe it had an impact on him.

I truly believe that salvation is so "simple" that we humans try to make it way too complicated! The conversation between the priest and me above explains all someone needs to know to be saved. I hope that my story has touched your heart and that you will study God's word for yourself to see that what I've said is true. I hope that if you're a Catholic now, you'll take the time to learn that what your Church really teaches is not in the Bible as you've probably always assumed, and that you'll have the courage to seek out the truth. I hope that this message will cause someone else to say, "You know - I'd never thought of it that way before!"

:) Oh, FRiend! Irritable and combative words don't take the place of proofs...

Oh, now.... I'm not irritable! And the proofs are there -- it's Rome that twists it. And in a few lines, you fall prey to Rome's mistake by alleging that James indicates faith AND works. He doesn't. No proofs necessary. Those are facts. And facts are hard things sometimes. You just need to deal with it and READ the Bible for yourself!

Ahhh -- and now the tired old canard is parroted again:

"Mediator" is anyone who intercedes ("bridges the middle") on behalf of someone else, yes? Every time you pray for someone, you're a mediator. Yes, Jesus is the Sole Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5)... in the sense that, without Him, none of our prayers would matter at all, and we could do nothign good (and we wouldn't exist, anyway). But for anyone to assume that this excludes all SUBORDINATE mediators is to fail to understand the meaning of the word.

Mary cannot and does not intercede for anyone. She is not omniscient. She was a sinner in need of a Savior, as are we all.

Now then. You need to provide a little clarification because in one fell swoop, you've contradicted yourself. You just said:

"Yes, Jesus is the Sole Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5)...." and actually managed to quote the correct scripture that supports that fact. Yet, you say:

"But for anyone to assume that this excludes all SUBORDINATE mediators is to fail to understand the meaning of the word."

I think you actually have failed to understand the meaning of one particular word -- "Sole" in Sole Mediator. You cannot have a "sole" anything with subordinate somethings underneath it. It's either sole, or it's not sole. You said Jesus is the "sole" mediator. So does scripture. Yet, you said then in the next sentence that he isn't the sole mediator. Which is it?

As for indulgences, I think it's pretty obvious though the history of Rome that indulgences were sold to build St. Peter's basilica, no? But wait -- weren't they supposed to buy down the time souls spent in Purgatory?

There is no purgatory. If there were, why didn't Christ tell the thief on the cross, "Today, I'll be in Paradise. I'll see you when you've burned a bit."

There is Heaven. There is Hell. There is no purgatory.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 -- another misquoted/misrepresented/misinterpreted canard -- this is referring to a person's works. Not their soul. It even says so.... so, no, this is not a proof text.

2 Maccabees 12:39-45 - looked it up and saw nothing about "Purgatory" - not even an allusion to it. I can find Heaven, Hell, Sheol, Paradise -- all plainly stated in scripture. Can't find Purgatory. Again, nothing there.

No problem on the teasing. In the Religion Forum, one must have a thick skin. No sweat.

I am interested though in your explanation of being able to be the sole mediator and still have subordinate mediators. Very interested indeed.

Hoss

Oh, now.... I'm not irritable!

:) Glad to hear it!

And the proofs are there -- it's Rome that twists it.

You do realize that you'll need to SHOW those proofs, and not simply make me accept it on your say-so?

And in a few lines, you fall prey to Rome's mistake by alleging that James indicates faith AND works. He doesn't. No proofs necessary. Those are facts.

I'm not sure of the passage to which you'd be referring; I'm referring mainly to James 2, in which he says clearly that: (a) faith without works cannot save, and (b) we are justified by works, and not by faith alone. Are you referring to these?

And facts are hard things sometimes.

I appreciate that truism... though I'd gently suggest that it's applicable to both sides of any discussion!

You just need to deal with it and READ the Bible for yourself!

I have, I assure you... many times over. That's how I found James 2:24, John 6, Colossians 1:24, Matthew 16:18 (and its parallel/typological precedent in Isaiah 22), 2 Maccabees, and a whole host of other Scriptures which never seem to get much play in Protestant sermons. Ahhh -- and now the tired old canard is parroted again:

:) You do have a flair for the rhetorical...

[paladinan]
"Mediator" is anyone who intercedes ("bridges the middle") on behalf of someone else, yes? Every time you pray for someone, you're a mediator. Yes, Jesus is the Sole Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5)... in the sense that, without Him, none of our prayers would matter at all, and we could do nothign good (and we wouldn't exist, anyway). But for anyone to assume that this excludes all SUBORDINATE mediators is to fail to understand the meaning of the word.

[HossB86]
Mary cannot and does not intercede for anyone. She is not omniscient.

(?!) Pardon? Why do you say that omniscience is required in order to intercede for someone? Neither logic nor Scripture say anything of the sort.

She was a sinner in need of a Savior, as are we all.

She was in need of a savior; but she was not a sinner.

Now then. You need to provide a little clarification because in one fell swoop, you've contradicted yourself.

We'll see.

You just said: "Yes, Jesus is the Sole Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5)...." and actually managed to quote the correct scripture that supports that fact. Yet, you say: "But for anyone to assume that this excludes all SUBORDINATE mediators is to fail to understand the meaning of the word."

Right.

I think you actually have failed to understand the meaning of one particular word -- "Sole" in Sole Mediator. You cannot have a "sole" anything with subordinate somethings underneath it. It's either sole, or it's not sole. You said Jesus is the "sole" mediator. So does scripture. Yet, you said then in the next sentence that he isn't the sole mediator. Which is it?

I can explain it best by comparison:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees began to question, saying, 'Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only?'" (Luke 5:21)

"Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." (John 20:21-23)

Now, it's certainly true that only God can forgive sins, in general (i.e. not merely sins committed against us, personally--we can forgive those). But here we have Jesus saying that the Apostles have the authority to forgive (or to hold bound) sins... and that Heaven will ratify their decision. So... which is it? Is God the only One Who can forgive sins? Or can the Apostles do it, too?

The answer is, "both/and"... in the sense that only God forgives sins, but He's perfectly within His rights to forgive THROUGH the agency of his priests (mere mortal, sinful men). The authority is God's alone... but He freely chose (as John 20:21-23 makes crystal-clear) to exert that authority in cooperation with some of His children. No priest or bishop can forgive ANYTHING on his own; it's only God, forgiving through that sinful man, which makes the Sacrament of Confession effective. In short: the word "ONLY" must refer to the ULTIMATE source of authority for forgiveness... or else the text simply lies (which would be attributing a lie to the Holy Spirit WHo included it as Sacred Scripture).

As to your question: all mediation between God and man is done by Jesus alone... but Jesus Himself enacts that mediation through His Body, which is the Church. The extent to which we can mediate for one another is precisely the extent to which we are incorporated in the Body of Christ.

Now, let me ask you: what, exactly, do you think "mediation" *means*? Surely it has a definition? And surely the definition is knowable to us? When anyone prays to God on behalf of another, it would not behoove us to avoid the word "mediation" simply out of a fastidious caution about 1 Timothy 2:5, any more than it would, for example, behoove us never to call our male parent "father", simply out of a fastidious caution about Matthew 23:9 (especially since St. Paul, St. Stephen, and even Jesus Himself applied it to mere men--1 Corinthians 4:15, Acts 7:2, Luke 16:24ff, respectively), or any more than it would behoove us to assume that unborn babies are all sinners, simply out of a fastidiously exacting view of Romans 3:23. Some things which seem absolute, at first glance, are shown to be quite different, when given the proper context.

As for indulgences, I think it's pretty obvious though the history of Rome that indulgences were sold to build St. Peter's basilica, no?

Yes, and no. Indulgences can be gained when someone enacts a charitable work (one such work being monetary donations to build up St. Peter's Basilica), and some misguided priests (and/or other proclaimers of the indulgence) presented things in such a way that the laity thought the indulgences were being "sold". But again: I already told you that indulgences need to be judged on their TRUE nature, not on the abuses done WITH (or to) them.

But wait -- weren't they supposed to buy down the time souls spent in Purgatory?

Not "buy down"; indulgences, when gained, remit temporal punishment which would otherwise be expiated in Purgatory.

There is no purgatory.

Scripture, Sacred Traditon, and common sense all disagree with that.

If there were, why didn't Christ tell the thief on the cross, "Today, I'll be in Paradise. I'll see you when you've burned a bit."

Are you under the impression that, since Purgatory exists, then everyone must necessarily go through it? I'm not sure where you'd get that idea; the Church doesn't teach it... and it's the teachings of the Church which are being discussed, here. St. Dismas (the "good thief") apparently didn't need any expiation beyond his sincere act of love and trust, and his own terrible suffering on his own cross.

There is Heaven. There is Hell.

True, and true.

There is no purgatory.

You'll need to prove that assertion, if you want anyone else to see it as aught but your mere personal opinion.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 -- another misquoted/misrepresented/misinterpreted canard -- this is referring to a person's works. Not their soul. It even says so.

It refers to a person's works being "burned up", but it also refers to a person "being saved, but only as through a fire". In other words: you have no basis for making this an "either/or" situation; the "fire" refers to both the works and the soul.

2 Maccabees 12:39-45 - looked it up and saw nothing about "Purgatory" - not even an allusion to it.

No?

So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden; and they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out. And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.

So... you don't find the idea of "praying for the dead, and making sin offerings in atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin" to be any reference to Purgatory? Those in hell cannot be delivered from their sin (and they would not benefit from our prayers or offerings), and those in Heaven have no need of such help, and those who are alive are not dead. So... what other option is there? No, the word "Purgatory" is not in the text (that's a title of convenience, anyway, just to call it SOMETHING), any more than the word "Trinity" is in the text (I've had loads of fund debates with Unitarians on that one!)... but it's not necessary, either.

As to your question: all mediation between God and man is done by Jesus alone... but Jesus Himself enacts that mediation through His Body, which is the Church. The extent to which we can mediate for one another is precisely the extent to which we are incorporated in the Body of Christ.

Uh. No. There is one mediator between God and Man...

"5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

One mediator between God and Man. Mankind is part of the body of Christ (at least those who are saved by grace through faith) -- so those who are receiving mediation by Christ cannot extend mediation to another that Christ alone can give!

James 2 has been misquoted and twisted by Rome. Faith saves. Works are a result of faith. Again, let's visit the thief on the cross. What works had he done? He was being crucified to death for being a thief! I don't think that qualifies as what Rome considers "saving works." His FAITH saved him. Faith provided to him from above.

You just need to deal with it and READ the Bible for yourself!

I have, I assure you... many times over.

Well, you need to keep reading it over and over and over. And praying for the Holy Spirit to open your heart, eyes and mind to God's truth.

She was in need of a savior; but she was not a sinner.

Really? If she was sinless, she needed no savior. Only sinners need to be saved....how about Romans 3 --

"21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."

Re-read that passage. Catch the part(s) about justification by faith apart from works of the law? That Christ is put forth as a propitiation by his blood for us to receive by faith? What about faith and works? If it's so essential, why is it that it doesn't appear every time faith is mentioned?

Because works don't save. They don't add to our salvation. Faith saves...

(?!) Pardon? Why do you say that omniscience is required in order to intercede for someone? Neither logic nor Scripture say anything of the sort.

Really?? How does Mary hear the prayer of millions of "faithful Catholics" every single day? Only God is capable of that! Logic nor scripture say anything of the sort about Mary being a mediatrix, sinless, assumed bodily to Heaven -- the Catholic Cult speaks of it in scripture's silence and calls it "Holy Tradition." But it's NOT scriptural. It's made out of whole cloth.

So... instead of all the other sturm and drang, explain how a sole mediator can have subordinate mediators? Explain how "one mediator between God and Man" becomes multiple mediators? Or even one other mediator in the person of a created sinner saved by grace named Mary? You're asking me to define mediator -- I asked you how you reconcile one vs. many? Define "one" -- and then try to explain in some tortured manner that "one" is not one but many....

Waiting...

Hoss

Well, this has never worked before but I’ll give it a try anyway.

Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

The reason it never worked is because it is dead wrong.

Here is the truth:

And Paul clarifies that quite nicely in Galatians.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties,

Gal 5:21 envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control; against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.