Well then you need these:
Posted on 03/02/2015 11:28:44 AM PST by Alex Murphy
The First Presbyterian Church of Boulder is asking its congregation to vote on whether to end affiliation with the Presbyterian Church (USA), in favor of a California-based evangelical Presbyterian association that defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman.
The First Presbyterian Church of Boulder, 1820 15th St., well known for a large-scale feed of Boulder's homeless population every Thanksgiving, had originally been scheduled to take a vote of its congregation Feb. 22, but that was postponed due to weather.
And although absentee voting has been ongoing, the bulk of the balloting is now scheduled for its services on Sunday.
The Rev. Erik Hanson, lead pastor of the church, denied in an interview Friday that seeking a new affiliation for the downtown church is spurred primarily by the same-sex marriage issue — despite what some of its 1,500 congregants might believe.
"This has not been the driving wedge for us," said Hanson, who came to Boulder from Berkeley, Calif., in 2012. "There are people in our church convinced that is the driving wedge and we're just not being honest about it. I just don't know what to do about that ... . It's more complicated than that."
The church website carries extensive discourse around the re-affiliation process and the reasoning that has brought the parish to this juncture. "Same-sex marriage" is not a phrase that appears in its online discussions.
For example, under a feature titled " Framing Our Denominational Concerns,' the church outlines issues related to issues as diverse as property ownership and leadership development, in which it feels it could mesh or operate more smoothly under a different organizational umbrella.
But in that same passage on its online material outlining denominational concerns it states, "Certainly, the ongoing disagreement over human sexuality and leadership standards are signs of our denomination's divergent views on the authority of Scripture and costly discipleship."
Also on the church website, under "Summary Statements of Session's Discernment," which examines reasons it is seeking dismissal from the Louisville, Ky.-based Presbyterian Church (USA), it states that church leadership "is aware that our extended community of Boulder County may frame this decision in terms of a fight over human sexuality. This possible frustration is one we must go through together.
"Yes, the PC(USA)'s understanding of human sexuality is evolving, but our study and discernment has not led (leadership) to make this a primary reason for seeking dismissal."
Switch in affiliation not likely finalized until at least August
Church leadership is now proposing to affiliate instead with ECO: A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians, based in Goleta, Calif., with member churches scattered across the United States.
"We do believe that marriage is a covenant that God has instituted between one man and one woman," Dana Allin, synod executive and executive director of the denomination, said in an interview Friday. He said his denomination now has 183 member churches representing about 75,000 congregants.
Allin said he traveled to Boulder to talk to First Presbyterian Church of Boulder officials about the proposed change in affiliation.
"They have a variety of things" prompting the potential change," Allin said. "We try not to be as concerned with why people are wanting to leave, as to why they want to come in.
Boulder First Presbyterian's congregational vote today is considered "advisory" in nature. Its ruling elders actually voted last May to seek "gracious dismissal" from the 42-Church Presbytery of Plains and Peaks, based in Greeley, which is the regional office representing the PC(USA).
To fully complete the disassociation requires completion of a lengthy process, overseen by the Presbytery's administrative commission. That commission must negotiate a range of issues with the Boulder church, before it can finally sign off on First Presbyterian's so-called "gracious dismissal."
Although the results of today's vote could be known to the congregation as early as Monday evening, Hanson doesn't believe a complete transfer of affiliation to ECO in California can be effected until later this year.
"I think the most likely time frame is probably late October," Hanson said. "There's still some fairly big financial settlements to be negotiated, and there has to be a meeting and vote of the Presbytery, and they only meet five times a year. I would say at the earliest, it will be August, but probably October.
'I think some people would say it is kind of ironic'
On the question of same-sex marriage, Hanson said, "I'm not going to run from it. We are a theologically conservative church. We do, I think, disagree with where our (current) denomination is on this issue. I would say there are actually a number of issues we have disagreed with our denomination on over the years."
Same-sex marriage is now legal in 37 states and the District of Columbia, with Colorado's constitutional ban on same-sex marriage having been struck down in state district court July 9, 2014.
Boulder County played a significant part in the turning of the state's legal tide, when Boulder County Clerk Hillary Hall started issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples on June 25, 2014, just hours after the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals struck down Utah's same-sex marriage ban. That was one thread of fast unraveling legal barriers that led then-Colorado Attorney General John Suthers to declare Oct. 6 that all Colorado counties should begin issuing licenses to same-sex couples who requested them.
Hanson admitted there was some potential irony in his church contemplating this change, located as it is in the heart of a community that helped push the rest of Colorado toward acceptance of same-sex marriage.
"If you're going to frame it this way, I think some people would say it is kind of ironic" Hanson said."But that's the great thing about being progressives, is we can sit down to continue to disagree.
"I would say my church that I get to pastor is very much like Boulder. There are tons of people in it with very different views. One of the things that is less divergent in our church is we really trust in Jesus. That has real implications in how we live our lives."
The change afoot at Boulder First Presbyterian Church was greeted with dismay at Out Boulder, an advocacy group serving Boulder's LGBT community since 1994. Mardi Moore, its executive director, said it has been focusing on doing more outreach work with faith groups on behalf of its constituency.
"Every good social justice movement has a safe, faith community working with them," Moore said. "It's very disturbing and yet not surprising that churches and communities of faith continue to work against us and further the discrimination that we face in a majority of our lives."
....Church leadership is now proposing to affiliate instead with ECO: A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians, based in Goleta, Calif., with member churches scattered across the United States. "We do believe that marriage is a covenant that God has instituted between one man and one woman," Dana Allin, synod executive and executive director of the denomination, said in an interview Friday. He said his denomination now has 183 member churches representing about 75,000 congregants....
....Hanson admitted there was some potential irony in his church contemplating this change, located as it is in the heart of a community that helped push the rest of Colorado toward acceptance of same-sex marriage. "If you're going to frame it this way, I think some people would say it is kind of ironic" Hanson said."But that's the great thing about being progressives, is we can sit down to continue to disagree.
The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado!
Well, we will see the issue of homosexual marriage become a factor in splitting up religious denominations.
Some churches and denominations will take the position that they want to be liberal and be in line with secular civil law on the subject. Others will hold to traditional views on marriage.
As homosexual marriage becomes legal soon in all 50 states, churches all over America have to.make a choice of whether they will celebrate same sex marriages.
Boulder: 34 square miles surrounded by reality.
As far as I know adultery is legal in all 50 states also, are those churches going to embrace that too?
**The change afoot at Boulder First Presbyterian Church was greeted with dismay at Out Boulder, an advocacy group serving Boulder’s LGBT community since 1994. Mardi Moore, its executive director, said it has been focusing on doing more outreach work with faith groups on behalf of its constituency.**
Oh No! The LGBT community is upset!
I am not in love with some of the EPC standards , but it fits well churches leavng liberal PCUSA
BTW I drive 45 minutes for services .. The church has a wonderful godly pastor that preaches the gospel ...and does not compromise reformed doctrine.. and so there is where i stand :)
Um, No.....not the evangelical ones, anyway.
Fortunately, the bulk of the service was taken up by a Christmas cantata, so I was spared having to sit through a sermon which would most likely have been a harangue global warming, the sins of George W. Bush, the threat posed by the Evil Tea Party, or some other liberal cause.
So this development in the Presbyterian church comes to me as a surprise.
Well then you need these:
I figured that. I was really referring to the PCUSA churches and their ilk.
yes YES good for them!
Anything to get our of the IslamoNazi-infested Satanic PCUSA.
and there are a number of good Christian denominational associations that they can, if they wish, affiliate with ...
Calvinist and all the rest of the spectrum, there’s absolutely NO reason or excuse for any Christian believer to have anything to do with PCUSA today!
10 or 20 years of efforts to clean the infection out of PCUSA has mostly met with failure. There is a time for every purpose under Heaven, and it is long past time for all the remaining good Christians to just leave PCUSA and form, or find, a good Christian church.
Wow i want a pair ....
Christianity is truly becoming counter-culture in ways I never thought it would.
The world gets more and more disgusting.
:)
While that’s great that they’re leaving the PCUSA over this, why didn’t they leave decades earlier as the PCUSA embraced liberalism by denying the inerrancy of the Bible, ordaining teaching elders who denied the virgin birth and physical resurrection of Christ, endorsed abortions, ordained women, embraced liberation theology, etc.?
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