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To: metmom
But why not want Jesus to be the rock your church is built on?

The Church is a union of the earthly and the Divine. Jesus Christ, who calls Himself the cornerstone, established the Church on the foundation of the Apostles. Among the Apostles, Jesus designated one with a primacy, calling him "the rock." The visible church on earth is governed by men, but shepherded by Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Why pick something inferior?

I see nothing inferior in accepting a visible, earthly church established by the cornerstone, Jesus Christ. You're here slipping back into your "instead of"/either-or thinking.

And *Jesus said so* doesn’t cut it because the interpretation of that passage is not as clear cut as RC’s would like to present it as.

But since I very truly believe "Jesus said so" (and there are a host of contextual, grammatical, and historical reasons I think that) then it's a very good first cut.

Even the RCC’s CCC states that the rock that the church is built on is Peter’s confession of Jesus as the Messiah.

Yep. And the CCC also says "upon this rock" refers to Peter. We're a 'both/and' -- not 'either/or' -- kind of people. As I've said above, given it's rather artificial to separate Peter from Peter's faith, I have no problem accepting both readings.

It’s Jesus’ body that HE died to redeem. Not Peter’s.

Actually, Jesus's body was not in need of redemption. He's the Redeemer, not one of the redeemed. Peter's body, by contrast, was in need of redemption. As with all of us.

300 posted on 02/14/2015 4:51:50 PM PST by CpnHook
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To: CpnHook
The Church is a union of the earthly and the Divine. Jesus Christ, who calls Himself the cornerstone, established the Church on the foundation of the Apostles.

And Jesus said where two or three are gathered together, He would be in their midst.

Among the Apostles, Jesus designated one with a primacy, calling him "the rock."

That is not evident in the book of Acts or other places in the NT.

The visible church on earth is governed by men, but shepherded by Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Bishops and elders who do not resemble at all the offices the RCC has instituted.

I see nothing inferior in accepting a visible, earthly church established by the cornerstone, Jesus Christ.

Picking a church for what? Exactly?

The rock is Christ. Paul identifies the rock as Christ in plain, simple, clear words.

http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.

You need to refute that and show how that is wrong.

302 posted on 02/14/2015 5:59:47 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: CpnHook
And the CCC also says "upon this rock" refers to Peter.

About the oft quoted Matthew 16:18...

316 posted on 02/15/2015 2:48:25 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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