SALT LAKE CITY — The founder of the Mormon Stories podcasts announced Tuesday that he has been excommunicated from the LDS Church for apostasy.

John Dehlin, who had criticized senior leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and spread what his local church leader called "false concepts" about the faith, made the announcement in a press release Tuesday morning and on the KUER radio program, "RadioWest."

North Logan Utah Stake President Bryan King convened a church disciplinary council for Dehlin on Sunday night after eight months of correspondence and meetings with Dehlin. King delivered a letter to Dehlin late Monday with the council's decision, and Dehlin distributed it to the media.

"The council concluded," King wrote, "that you were in apostasy on the following issues — your teachings disputing the nature of our Heavenly Father and the divinity of Jesus Christ; your statements that the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham are fraudulent and works of fiction; your statements and teachings that reject The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-days Saints as being the true church with power and authority from God."

King noted that doubts and questions were not the reason for the decision, but that Dehlin crossed a line when he spread what King characterized as "teachings" widely via the Internet, and that Dehlin had told King he would not stop.

Dehlin didn't not respond to requests for an interview with the Deseret News. He told KUER that he will continue to consider himself a Mormon though separated from certain church activity.

"This is a very troubling and sad process. It's very emotional," he said, adding, "I see this as a sort of procedural and bureaucratic decision that doesn't have much effect other than some very specific things related to my direct relationship to the church at this time. I'm still very much a Mormon in my view."

The reasons

Dehlin said that ever since he purchased the microphone to start Mormon Stories 10 years ago — before Prop 8 and Ordain Women — he felt excommunication was a possibility if not an inevitability.

In the past month, however, Dehlin and some LDS bloggers jousted over the real reasons for his disciplinary council. He issued a press release in January contending his support and advocacy for civil same-sex marriages and priesthood ordination for women played a major part in King's decisions to convene the council. He praised newspaper headlines that focused on those issues.

Some LDS bloggers cried foul over Dehlin's characterization, saying he was misrepresenting King. Dehlin then seemed to backtrack, saying he had never claimed gay marriage and female ordination were the main causes for the discipline.

The conflict centered on Dehlin's Aug. 7 meeting with King. Dehlin released 37 pages of notes Tuesday from that meeting.

Bloggers like Nathaniel Givens argued Dehlin was using marriage and ordination to angle for greater publicity. Givens pointed out that, in an Aug. 11 letter also released by Dehlin, King wrote, "I fear that in my willingness to engage in a discussion on all of the issues that you chose to address during our lengthy conversations, the direction of my true concerns may have not been clear."

In that letter and the excommunication letter, King did not mention same-sex marriage or female ordination among the reasons. Dehlin's press release Tuesday insisting that they were factors prompted a statement from the LDS Church.

The statement said that church discipline is a local issue, but the church reserves the right to respond when a person decides to make the process public.

"In this case," the statement said, "attempts have been made to create the impression that the disciplinary council convened on Sunday which has resulted in a loss of church membership or excommunication of Mr. Dehlin arose largely because of his views on same-sex marriage and priesthood ordination for women. Although his stated positions on those subjects are not consistent with the church’s teachings, they were not cited in the local leader’s letter delivered to Mr. Dehlin on February 9."

About doubts

The church's statement also quoted King's letter that the excommunication was not a result of Dehlin's doubts. King acknowledged Dehlin's free-speech right to openly state his opinions and "criticize the church and its doctrine and persuade others to his cause."

"But you do not have the right," King added, "to remain a member of the church in good standing while openly and publicly trying to convince others that church teachings are in error."

Senior general authorities of the church repeatedly have said questions or expressions of doubt are normal in a journey of faith, as President Dieter F. Uchtdorf of the First Presidency did during an address at the church's October 2013 general conference.

Apostasy doesn't arise unless questioning leads to criticism of church leaders and efforts to draw others away from the church.

In late January, Elder D. Todd Christofferson of the church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles made a similar statement during an appearance on the Trib Talk webcast sponsored by The Salt Lake Tribune.

“We have members in the church with a variety of different opinions and beliefs and positions on these issues," Elder Christofferson said, "but … in our view it doesn’t become a problem unless someone is out attacking the church and its leaders, trying to get others to follow them, to draw others away, trying to pull people out of the church, or away from its teachings and doctrines. That’s very different for us, than someone who feels one way or another on a political stance or a particular action…to support a group.”

In a Facebook post, Dehlin said he appreciated Elder Christofferson's statement but said it didn't provide him protection because, "I have criticized church leadership publicly."

"I want you to know, Brother Dehlin, that this action was not taken against you because you have doubts or because you were asking questions about church doctrine. Rather, this decision has been reached because of your categorical statements opposing the doctrine of the church and their wide dissemination via your Internet presence, which has led others away from the church."

Long process

Dehlin said he now has been through three formal church investigations in the past 10 years, during which time he has published recordings of sacred LDS temple ordinances and created Mormon Stories chapters around the world as support organizations for people leaving the church, according to MormonVoices, an independent group that responds to misrepresentations about the LDS Church.

At that time, according to Dehlin, he asked the bishop of his LDS ward to no longer consider him a part of the congregation. King was the new president of the North Logan Utah Stake to which Dehlin's former ward belongs. A stake president oversees multiple congregations, known as wards, in a geographical area, similar to a Catholic diocese.

In June, King sent Dehlin a letter saying he was aware of Dehlin's request and also saying he had seen Dehlin's updated bio on his website, where he said he no longer believed "many of the fundamental LDS Church truth claims."

Those two actions, King said in the letter, prompted him to seek information from Dehlin about whether he wanted to remain a member of the church. If he did, King wrote, then a disciplinary council was warranted.

Disciplinary councils in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are called for various reasons. When used to address apostasy, they follow counseling by a local church leader who asks the member to stop. Councils can result in no action, probation, disfellowshipment or excommunication.

Also in June, a bishop in Virginia excommunicated Kate Kelly, a founder of Ordain Women, for her efforts to recruit others to her belief women should be ordained to the priesthood.

Dehlin, a doctoral student in psychology at Utah State University, said he did not wish to rescind his membership but continued to disseminate his views about what he calls LDS Church "truth claims" on his Mormon Stories podcasts and website and through the Open Stories Foundation, which he created as open forums about "Mormon-related faith crises."

In an August 2014 letter Dehlin posted on Facebook, King told Dehlin he needed to renounce those specific "false concepts" and stop providing a forum for people critical of the church and promoting groups that espouse doctrines contrary to the church.

Dehlin declined. Tuesday, he told KUER he wants the LDS Church to create safe spaces he said exist in other faith traditions for people who don't accept "many of the literalistic and absolutist claims" like the historicity of scripture or the stories of the resurrection or Noah.

Dehlin also expressed appreciation for King and asked supporters to respect King for his "professionalism and commitment to LDS Church leadership and policies."

What's next

Dehlin can appeal the decision to the First Presidency of the church within 30 days. If he does not, or if the appeal is denied, excommunication generally lasts at least one year, but King said to return to the church Dehlin would need to renounce his claims about God, Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon and the church's priesthood authority, and express sorrow for those impacted by them.

King invited Dehlin and his family to continue to attend church meetings, but he may not give a talk, offer a public prayer, participate in sustaining church officers or partake of the sacrament.

Dehlin spoke to supporters and media for 13 minutes on Sunday night after the disciplinary council, which lasted more than three hours.

Dehlin called for civil discussion, and he asked supporters to take down signs critical of his church leaders. He also expressed gratitude to the church, saying it had provided a community that had been important to him.

"I feel like Mormonism is my heritage," he told KUER Tuesday. "It's my culture, it's my tribe, it's my identity. I don't believe my Mormonism can be taken from me by a process like this. Mormonism is bigger than the LDS Church... I still claim the title 'Mormon.'"

Still, he said Sunday, he must now must find "new truth, new community, new growth, new joy."

"That is the task that is ahead of us," he added, "not to continue fighting the church or its leadership. Not to continue discussing and complaining about the same old, tired scripts. Even though that is an important part of the process. But at some point it becomes time to move on."

Dehlin said he will continue his Mormon Stories podcasts. He also is developing a nonprofit organization that he said would support Mormons and people of other religious traditions through their journeys, either to find ways to remain in their faith or to leave and find meaning outside.

On KUER, Dehlin told people not to leave the church for him, said his goal is to be 100 percent positive and expressed a feeling of freedom that he no longer needs to listen to church leaders at general conference or care about steps taken by the church.

your statements that the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham are fraudulent and works of fiction;

It just HATE when things like this are exposed!

The BIGGEST battle on the face of the Earth EVER recorded; and not ONE even teeny bit of evidence of it can be found!!

The Book of Ether

Chapter 15

Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.

1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the ^awords which Ether had spoken unto him.

2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly ^atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.

3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul ^amourned and refused to be ^bcomforted.

4 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.

5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.

6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.

7 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.

8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.

9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.

10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.

11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ^ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.

13 And it came to pass that Ether did ^abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.

14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.

15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with ^aweapons of war, having shields, and ^bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.

16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a ^alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.

17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.

18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.

19 But behold, the ^aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and ^bSatan had full power over the ^chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.

20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.

21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.

22 And when the night came they were ^adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.

23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.

24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.

25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.

26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.

27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.

28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.

29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had ^aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.

30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.

31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and ^afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.

32 And it came to pass that ^aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.

33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he ^afinished his ^brecord; (and the ^chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.

34 Now the last words which are written by ^aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am ^bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15

And yet the BOOK says...

Ether 14:22
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.

Figure	Joseph Smith Explanation^[52]	Explanation by non-Mormon and Mormon Egyptologists (quotes are from Deveria)^[25]^[43]^[53]
1	Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.	"The spirit of the four elements (according to Champollion), or rather of the four winds, or the four cardinal points; the soul of the terrestrial world. This god is always represented with four rams' heads, and his image has certainly been altered here. — They have also evidently made a very clumsy attempt at copying the double human head of the god figured above, fig. 2, instead of the four rams' heads. The word Jah-oh-eh has nothing Egyptian in it; it resembles the Hebrew word [redacted] badly transcribed." (emphasis in original) The name hieroglyph above the central figure is Chnm-Re, the Egyptian "First Creator" god who organized everything out of the primordial chaos.

“I know in a lot of ways it feels like, for me, the church isn’t just rejecting John Dehlin, the church is rejecting me too,” supporter Micah Nickolaisen said.

Feel the LOVE!

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

“I may be the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades, but I’ll pucker up and lay a fat sloppy wet full-mouth kiss on the Papal ring and bulk-order me some rosary beads before I ever consider slipping into some Utah-brand Mystical Underwear. “

Temple Recommend Questions

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

Mormons claim to have a "burning bosom" sensation when they pray about the Book of Mormon.

If you have cable TV, there won’t be much on to watch.

If there isn’t much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.

If you open your door, you will see mormons.

If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into “praying about whether something is true”.

If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.

If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!

If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.

DON’T be a cultist!
Get DirectTV.

It mattereth not; as this, too, shall pass.

Scrambler Bob -- and others -- allow me to get out my peepstone & my pet rock and "translate" Elsie's "It mattereth not."

You see, the Mormon god of Smith's "Doctrines & Covenants" "scriptures" isn't very "sovereign": He's...
... hesitant.
He's shifty.
He's just not sure if polygamy is "out" or "in"; or what to do with somebody's darker skin as it pertained to their special priesthood.

Just about ALL of the Mormon "scriptures" called the "D&C: is written in first-person form --
--as if the Mormon main god is speaking directly through Smith.

So...I ask you all: Why would this particular Mormon god (one of MANY) take the time to include the phrase, "it mattereth not" in the middle of giving counsel? (After all, He's not saying "it doesn't matter" in response to a query or question.)

Two Mormon "scripture" examples of how the Mormon god mumbled 'it mattereth not':

* "And then you may return to bear record, yea, even altogether, or two by two, as seemeth you good, IT MATTERETH NOT UNTO ME (D&C 62:5)
* "Let there be a craft made, or bought, as seeth you good, IT MATTERETH NOT unto me..." (D&C 60:5)

Right before this, the Mormon god is revoking commandments he just made (D&C 63:4; again, v. 5; again, v. 6)

You see, this particular Mormon god of the D&C isn't exactly a "take-charge" kind of guy.
He doesn't come across as a true "Lord."
He uses phrases like "as circumstances shall permit" -- as if the circumstances were "Lord" over him and he, himself isn't "Lord." Or he'll use the phrase "peradventure" repeatedly as if He was catering to random happenstance:

* "And verily I say unto you, the rest of my servants, go ye forth as your circumstances shall permit..." (D&C 84:117 [circumstances are their "lord" of their lives?]
* "Therefore, you are dissolved as a united order with your brethren, that you are not bound only up to this hour unto them, only on this wise, as I said, by loan as shall be agreed by this order in council, as your circumstances will admit and the voice of the council direct." (D&C 104:53 -- the "United Order" btw, was the Mormon 19th century attempt @ socialistic communism)

Now the above isn't simply Joseph Smith giving orders as "prophet" of the church. The context here is that the "divine entity" is supposedly speaking first-person through Joseph Smith -- talking about how "all these properties are mine" (v. 55, etc.)

It's like the Mormon god is saying: "Do this...um...provided circumstances kick in and the council OKs it."

D&C 103:32-33: So much for a "sovereign" Mormon god here as well:
"Therefore, if you cannot obtain five hundred, seek diligently that peradventure you may obtain three hundred. And if ye cannot obtain three hundred, seek diligently that peradventure ye may obtain one hundred." (Let's face it: The Mormon god just doesn't know how many)

Then, in v. 35, this Mormon god uses the word "peradventure" for a third time...I mean, come on. Who's "lord" to who in this tall tales of Smith's "revelations?"

Two Mormon "scripture" examples of how the Mormon god mumbled 'it mattereth not':

How about...

...and so forth.

WHAT? you might say!

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

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