Posted on 02/09/2015 4:37:32 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
Many claim that 2 Timothy 3:16–17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient"—which is, of course, exactly what Protestants think the passage means.
Point out that the context of 2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you haveheard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry.
I’m having an interesting experience listening to the bible lately. I have a three hour round trip commute and over the last three years have gone through the whole thing a couple of times, the new testamant many times, and many of the books over and over and over.
It’s done two things, one of which makes me a little nervous.
Thing number one: It has solidified my understanding of the message, the connections between the old and new testaments, the teaching of Christ, and daily application.
Thing number two. I now see it as what it is: A collection of books and letters from individual sources and I’m finding I respect some sources less than others. I first noticed it when listening to Jude for the umpteenth time. Who the heck was that guy and why do I give his letter status of being God speaking to ME?
And how much of the bible is for all readers and how much was specific messages to specific people. I mean, sure, we can glean wisdom from John telling little Joey to look both ways before crossing the street and apply it to our own lives, but when part of that message is also not relevant to me, how should I interpret that.
I’m not trying to argue that the bible is not the inspired word of God. Rather, I’m implying that throwing that word “inspired” in there has tremendous ramifications and makes it not the same as if the word was missing.
Comments anyone?
Answered prayer is key. After all, a person can be a Christian having never read a bible. And a lot of people throughout history could not read and can not read.
The Church tests Sacred Tradition against the canonical biblical texts (both Old and New Testaments) and does not place Sacred Tradition over them. To the extent Sacred Tradition contradicts the biblical texts or preaches another Gospel than what the Church has received, Sacred Tradition is neither good nor necessary.
Then why on earth do they teach that Mary was ever-virgin. Every single place where information is offered regarding it would be interpreted by a rational person that (if she were not Mary) the woman had sex with her husband and had kids. But to those for whom it is critical that she never had sex they try to twist the interpretation of words.
A simple example: If I say I was forbidden to drink until I was 21, would a rational person say that “therefore, I never drank”? They would, only if I died before I turned 21.
And the “brother” comes from a word that can also be translated “cousin” argument may be possible, but why make it? Multiple times Jesus’ brothers are mentioned, yet it seems to be imperative to some that it HAS TO mean cousins.
Mary was just a fallen human being like the rest of us. She was very much blessed in kinda the way you would be blessed if you won the lotto. i.e. she was not the mother of Jesus because she was blessed. Rather, she was blessed because she was the mother of God. This may be why Jesus, when he encounters her, never gives her special treatment. In fact, his comments border on disrespect - but only border. He demonstrates with her that He is no respecter of persons. The classic example is when He is told His mother and brothers are outside waiting He says, “who are My mother and brothers but those who do my Father’s will.”
And that’s just one example.
Moslems agree with you.
In what ways are you just a fallen human being and imagine Mary, mother of God with us, was just like you ?
The perpetual virginity of Mary is not a teaching to which I subscribe. I reckon the question would be in what manner, and to what extent, the Roman Church binds consciences through this teaching. Is it a harmful teaching, helpful, or innocuous?
A pious conscience I can understand to be inclined toward this teaching and receptive of it, but I agree there is no specific word from the biblical texts that attest to this. There are, in fact, passages stating quite plainly that Jesus has earthy brothers and sisters (who become incredulous and scandalized when their brother claims to be the Christ).
No, Muslims don’t believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God.
In what ways are you just a fallen human being and imagine Mary, mother of God with us, was just like you ?
Mankind is divided into two groups:
Group 1. Jesus Christ who is both fully man (Mother was human) and fully God (Father is God).
Group 2. Everybody else, who have ALL sinned.
From scripture. Her own words.
Is it a harmful teaching, helpful, or innocuous?
Mary was very blessed to be the mother of Jesus, no doubt about it.
I’m not trying to argue that the bible is not the inspired word of God. Rather, I’m implying that throwing that word “inspired” in there has tremendous ramifications and makes it not the same as if the word was missing.
1) The Bible is from God or it is not. There is no middle ground.
2) Don’t try to bend the Bible in to your way of thinking. We have to bend to what it says whether we like it or not. We may not understand the purpose of something in there now but later........
3) Del Tackett in The Truth Project presented the ideas of cocoons. A butterfly has to work its way out of the situation in order to have the strength to fly. If you cut open the cocoon and help the butterfly, it will die.
I actually like being in “cocoons”. There are many things in the Bible I don’t understand. But I know I will get answers if I keep looking and am stronger for the process.
4) Which item makes you nervous?
The Bereans are oft misunderstood. That they were more noble than the Jews in Thessaloniki is beyond question, except to unbelievers, and that is the point. Paul, was a chosen vessel of the Messiah to the Gentiles. In order to conform to the Messiah, he preached the word to the Jew first, and also (not then) to the Greek.
It was not necessary for the Berean Jews to search the scriptures daily to validate that what Paul said was true. It was true ! It was inspired, and witnessed, by the Spirit of God. Searching the scriptures daily to confirm it was true did not give the Bereans the authority to decide doctrinal truth. It was profitable to them personally, either for germinating a seed in those who had not yet believed the word of Paul, that Jesus is Messiah, or for the growth and edification of newborn babes in the faith, that the seed they received with joy not be choked, and they might overcome and receive the inheritance.
We never see Cephas telling the sheep of Messiah's flock that they should search the scriptures daily to see if what the Apostles taught was true or not.
Ping
‘I’m not trying to argue that the bible is not the inspired word of God. Rather, I’m implying that throwing that word “inspired” in there has tremendous ramifications and makes it not the same as if the word was missing.’
Then you perhaps in part Neo-Orthodox. Put forth by Karl Barth, it was the teaching that parts of the Bible are inspired to the reader if the reader(or listener in your case) deems them to be so. One reader may say a part is inspired, and another may say it is not.
Which item makes you nervous?
Take every book of the new testament and bind it as a separate document. Every single one of these documents was penned by a man. Now, for each of these documents (some are a single piece of paper) make a case for why it should be revered as “the word of God” relative to anything else penned by a man.
Right now I’m not offering any answers, but only questions.
This in no way reduces my belief that Jesus is the Son of God and that salvation is in His blood alone. But I’m finding myself questioning the veracity of some scripture as I am so heavily exposed to it.
Can one explain how good Friday and easter Sunday traditions replaced Paul’s plain gospel according to scripture- passover and first fruits?
That seems to be proof of tradition over the text..
And proof of another gospel that Rome created..
And I doubt Christians will see it... those daughters are just as blind to it..
That is not good.. but it is prophetic.
Christendom today isn’t sola scriptura.. it is sola roma .— and their roman holy days prove it..
Show the total depravity, of which she stands accused, from her own words.
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