Posted on 01/28/2015 7:00:21 AM PST by Stingray
The identity of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse has mystified and intrigued people for centuries. Each symbolizes something, but what do they symbolize?
When you see the connection between Revelation, the gospels, and historical facts, then you, too, will begin to understand John's incredibly powerful letter.
Let's begin.
I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. Revelation 6:1-2 (NIV2011)
Some people claim this rider with the crown and bow is Christ. Some claim it's an end-time anti-Christ. Truth is, it's neither. When Christ was among His disciples on Earth, He gave them a commission:
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Mark 16:15 (NIV2011)
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it. Mark 16:19-20 (NIV2011)
The rider on the white horse is Christ's apostles, sent out as a conquering force to change the world. Paul said as much in his second letter to the Corinthians:
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 (NIV2011)
Christ also told the chief priests He would be sending His messengers out, and what He told them would happen then, gives us clues as to the identities of the other three horsemen.
Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. Matthew 23:34 (NIV2011)
When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword. Revelation 6:3-4 (NIV2011)
While Christ was on earth, not one of His disciples was lost to persecution, and the only one whose life was lost, Judas Iscariot, took his own life out of guilt for betraying Christ.
But on the day of Pentecost, when Christ opened heaven and empowered His disciples to become His messengers, everything changed. Now they were as hated as He had been, just as Christ had foretold:
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. John 15:18 (NIV2011)
Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. John 15:20-21 (NIV2011)
“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, John 16:1-4 (NIV2011)
Jesus also made clear the coming fratricide in Matthew 24:
“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, Matthew 24:9-10 (NIV2011)
The rider of the red horse with the large sword represents those who persecuted, to death, Christ's messengers - those He sent to preach the gospel throughout the known world. What follows is what Christ prophesied in Matthew 23 & 24 about the persecutors of His messengers.
Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. Matthew 23:34-36 (NIV2011)
And whom does Christ name as the persecutors of the rider of the white horse?
Jerusalem.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. Matthew 23:37-38 (NIV2011)
In just this brief passage from Matthew 23, two things are abundantly clear:
Jesus is prophesying desolation for Israel in response to the way its apostate priesthood treated Him and His apostles, and He prophesies that the guilt of their sins would be held against them: that very generation that crucified Him and persecuted His messengers.
Need I remind you at this point who is sitting on the throne in heaven opening the scrolls?
This leads us to the rider on the black horse:
When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!” Revelation 6:5-6 (NIV2011)
This passage - like so many others in Revelation - is a direct reference to a passage in the Old Testament. The passage in Ezekiel to which it refers is a passage about Jerusalem's impending judgment at the hands of the Babylonains:
“Now, son of man, take a block of clay, put it in front of you and draw the city of Jerusalem on it. Then lay siege to it: Erect siege works against it, build a ramp up to it, set up camps against it and put battering rams around it. Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the people of Israel. Ezekiel 4:1-3 (NIV2011)
And note this specifically from Ezekiel 4:
He then said to me: “Son of man, I am about to cut off the food supply in Jerusalem. The people will eat rationed food in anxiety and drink rationed water in despair, for food and water will be scarce. They will be appalled at the sight of each other and will waste away because of their sin. Ezekiel 4:16-17 (NIV2011)
The rider on the black horse is famine: the famine that was caused within Jerusalem after the Romans had sealed the people inside the city, as the Babylonians had, turning fortress Jerusalem into a prison.
Now of those that perished by famine in the city, the number was prodigious, and the miseries they underwent were unspeakable; for if so much as the shadow of any kind of food did any where appear, a war was commenced presently, and the dearest friends fell a fighting one with another about it, snatching from each other the most miserable supports of life.
The Works of Flavius Josephus.
Jerusalem, torn by civil war within its walls and the siege of Rome's legions without, saw thousands upon thousands of its citizens die by way of war and famine. And this is precisely what the pale horse's rider symbolizes.
And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, `Come and behold!' and I saw, and lo, a pale horse, and he who is sitting upon him--his name is Death, and Hades doth follow with him, and there was given to them authority to kill, (over the fourth part of the land,) with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and by the beasts of the land. Revelation 6:7-8 (YLT)
I've chosen Young's Literal Translation for this verse because people need to understand that what's being represented here is not the earth as we know it, but the land of Judah and Jerusalem. This is made perfectly clear in Luke's gospel:
“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. Luke 21:20-22 (NIV2011)
In closing, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse represent events that occurred from the sending out of the apostles after that first post-resurrection Pentecost, to the judgment of Jerusalem and the "wicked generation" that killed Christ and His messengers. And how do I know this?
Because it had all happened once before.
The LORD, the God of their ancestors, sent word to them through his messengers again and again, because he had pity on his people and on his dwelling place. But they mocked God’s messengers, despised his words and scoffed at his prophets until the wrath of the LORD was aroused against his people and there was no remedy. He brought up against them the king of the Babylonians, who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and did not spare young men or young women, the elderly or the infirm. God gave them all into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar. He carried to Babylon all the articles from the temple of God, both large and small, and the treasures of the LORD’s temple and the treasures of the king and his officials. They set fire to God’s temple and broke down the wall of Jerusalem; they burned all the palaces and destroyed everything of value there. 2 Chronicles 36:15-19 (NIV2011)
Just as God had sent Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians to judge Judah and Jerusalem in 586 B.C., so Christ sent the legions of Rome, first under Vespasian then under Titus, to judge them starting in 66 AD, when the Jewish war with Rome began. It ended with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple in 70 AD, just as Christ had also foretold:
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” Matthew 24:1-2 (NIV2011)
“At least be consistent.”
It was the view of every NT writer that Christ would come in their lifetime. Here is the “consistency” you seek:
http://vftonline.org/VFTprayer/heaven/101.htm
“1) A tribulation that has never been seen before or ever will be witnessed.”
Jesus was not the first to use this language. Ezekiel used it to describe the coming destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar.
‘And because of all your abominations, I will do among you what I have not done, and the like of which I will never do again. ‘Therefore, fathers will eat their sons among you, and sons will eat their fathers; for I will execute judgments on you and scatter all your remnant to every wind. ‘So as I live,’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘surely, because you have defiled My sanctuary with all your detestable idols and with all your abominations, therefore I will also withdraw, and My eye will have no pity and I will not spare. ‘One third of you will die by plague or be consumed by famine among you, one third will fall by the sword around you, and one third I will scatter to every wind, and I will unsheathe a sword behind them. Ezekiel 5:9-12
This was fulfilled in 586 BC. Christ used similar language when He prophesied against Jerusalem. That is why the people - not the religious leaders - viewed Him as a prophet.
Here, 1. Christ, the Lamb, opens the first seal; he now enters upon the great work of opening and accomplishing the purposes of God towards the church and the world. 2. One of the ministers of the church calls upon the apostle, with a voice like thunder, to come near, and observe what then appeared. 3. We have the vision itself, Rev. 6:2. (1.) The Lord Jesus appears riding on a white horse. White horses are generally refused in war, because they make the rider a mark for the enemy; but our Lord Redeemer was sure of the victory and a glorious triumph, and he rides on the white horse of a pure but despised gospel, with great swiftness through the world. (2.) He had a bow in his hand. The convictions impressed by the word of God are sharp arrows, they reach at a distance; and, though the ministers of the word draw the bow at a venture, God can and will direct it to the joints of the harness. This bow, in the hand of Christ, abides in strength, and, like that of Jonathan, never returns empty. (3.) A crown was given him, importing that all who receive the gospel must receive Christ as a king, and must be his loyal and obedient subjects; he will be glorified in the success of the gospel. When Christ was going to war, one would think a helmet had been more proper than a crown; but a crown is given him as the earnest and emblem of victory. (4.) He went forth conquering, and to conquer. As long as the church continues militant Christ will be conquering; when he has conquered his enemies in one age he meets with new ones in another age; men go on opposing, and Christ goes on conquering, and his former victories are pledges of future victories. He conquers his enemies in his people; their sins are their enemies and his enemies; when Christ comes with power into their soul he begins to conquer these enemies, and he goes on conquering, in the progressive work of sanctification, till he has gained us a complete victory. And he conquers his enemies in the world, wicked men, some by bringing them to his foot, others by making them his footstool. Observe, From this seal opened, [1.] The successful progress of the gospel of Christ in the world is a glorious sight, worth beholding, the most pleasant and welcome sight that a good man can see in this world. [2.] Whatever convulsions and revolutions happen in the states and kingdoms of the world, the kingdom of Christ shall be established and enlarged in spite of all opposition. [3.] A morning of opportunity usually goes before a night of calamity; the gospel is preached before the plagues are poured forth. [4.] Christ’s work is not all done at once. We are ready to think, when the gospel goes forth, it should carry all the world before it, but it often meets with opposition, and moves slowly; however, Christ will do his own work effectually, in his own time and way.
Verses 3-8
The next three seals give us a sad prospect of great and desolating judgments with which God punishes those who either refuse or abuse the everlasting gospel. Though some understand them of the persecutions that befel the church of Christ, and others of the destruction of the Jews, they rather seem more generally to represent God’s terrible judgments, by which he avenges the quarrel of his covenant upon those who make light of it.
I. Upon opening the second seal, to which John was called to attend, another horse appears, of a different colour from the former, a red horse, Rev. 6:4. This signifies the desolating judgment of war; he that sat upon this red horse had power to take peace from the earth, and that the inhabitants of the earth should kill one another. Who this was that sat upon the red horse, whether Christ himself, as Lord of hosts, or the instruments that he raised up to conduct the war, is not clear; but this is certain, 1. That those who will not submit to the bow of the gospel must expect to be cut in sunder by the sword of divine justice. 2. That Jesus Christ rules and commands, not only in the kingdom of grace, but of providence. And, 3. That the sword of war is a dreadful judgment; it takes away peace from the earth, one of the greatest blessings, and it puts men upon killing one another. Men, who should love one another and help one another, are, in a state of war, set upon killing one another.
II. Upon opening the third seal, which John was directed to observe, another horse appears, different from the former, a black horse, signifying famine, that terrible judgment; and he that sat on the horse had a pair of balances in his hand (Rev. 6:5), signifying that men must now eat their bread by weight, as was threatened (Lev. 26:26), They shall deliver your bread to you by weight. That which follows in Rev. 6:6; of the voice that cried, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny, and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine, has made some expositors think this was not a vision of famine, but of plenty; but if we consider the quantity of their measure, and the value of their penny, at the time of this prophecy, the objection will be removed; their measure was but a single quart, and their penny was our sevenpence-halfpenny, and that is a large sum to give for a quart of wheat. However, it seems this famine, as all others, fell most severely upon the poor; whereas the oil and the wine, which were dainties of the rich, were not hurt; but if bread, the staff of life, be broken, dainties will not supply the place of it. Here observe, 1. When a people loathe their spiritual food, God may justly deprive them of their daily bread. 2. One judgment seldom comes alone; the judgment of war naturally draws after it that of famine; and those who will not humble themselves under one judgment must expect another and yet greater, for when God contends he will prevail. The famine of bread is a terrible judgment; but the famine of the word is more so, though careless sinners are not sensible of it.
III. Upon opening the fourth seal, which John is commanded to observe, there appears another horse, of a pale colour. Here observe, 1. The name of the rider—Death, the king of terrors; the pestilence, which is death in its empire, death reigning over a place or nation, death on horseback, marching about, and making fresh conquests every hour. 2. The attendants or followers of this king of terrors—hell, a state of eternal misery to all those who die in their sins; and, in times of such a general destruction, multitudes go down unprepared into the valley of destruction. It is an awful thought, and enough to make the whole world to tremble, that eternal damnation immediately follows upon the death of an impenitent sinner. Observe, (1.) There is a natural as well as judicial connection between one judgment and another: war is a wasting calamity, and draws scarcity and famine after it; and famine, not allowing men proper sustenance, and forcing them to take that which is unwholesome, often draws the pestilence after it. (2.) God’s quiver is full of arrows; he is never at a loss for ways and means to punish a wicked people. (3.) In the book of God’s counsels he has prepared judgments for scorners as well as mercy for returning sinners. (4.) In the book of the scriptures God has published threatenings against the wicked as well as promises to the righteous; and it is our duty to observe and believe the threatenings as well as the promises.
IV. After the opening of these seals of approaching judgments, and the distinct account of them, we have this general observation, that God gave power to them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth, Rev. 6:8. He gave them power, that is, those instruments of his anger, or those judgments themselves; he who holds the winds in his hand has all public calamities at his command, and they can only go when he sends them and no further than he permits. To the three great judgments of war, famine, and pestilence, is here added the beasts of the earth, another of God’s sore judgments, mentioned Ezek. 14:21; and mentioned here the last, because, when a nation is depopulated by the sword, famine, and pestilence, the small remnant that continue in a waste and howling wilderness encourage the wild beasts to make head against them, and they become easy prey. Others, by the beasts of the field, understand brutish, cruel, savage men, who, having divested themselves of all humanity, delight to be the instruments of the destruction of others.
“5) [All tribes of the earth] shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
“(Didn’t happen)”
Yes it did. But again, the language in Matthew 24:30 & Revelation 1:7 comes straight out of the Old Testament:
“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen. Revelation 1:7
Now, here’s the OT context for understanding these verses:
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, and all the rest of the clans and their wives. Zechariah 12:10-14
The prophecies of Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 refer to Jerusalem and Judea. They have nothing to do with anyone living today.
(1.) The assurance we have of Christ’s glory, at his second coming to judge the world, Matt. 16:27. If we look to the end of all these things, the period of the world, and the posture of souls then, we shall thence form a very different idea of the present state of things. If we see things as the will appear then, we shall see them as they should appear now.
The great encouragement to steadfastness in religion is taken from the second coming of Christ, considering it,
[1.] As his honour; The Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, with his angels. To look upon Christ in his state of humiliation, so abased, so abused, a reproach of men, and despised of the people, would discourage his followers from taking any pains, or running any hazards for him; but with an eye of faith to see the Captain of our salvation coming in his glory, in all the pomp and power of the upper world, will animate us, and make us think nothing too much to do, or too hard to suffer, or him. The Son of man shall come. He here gives himself the title of his humble state (he is the Son of man), to show that he is not ashamed to own it. His first coming was in the meanness of his children, who being partakers of flesh, he took part of the same; but his second coming will be in the glory of his Father. At his first coming, he was attended with poor disciples; at his second coming, he will be attended with glorious angels; and if we suffer with him, we shall be glorified with him, 2 Tim. 2:12.
[2.] As our concern; Then he shall reward every man according to his works. Observe, First, Jesus Christ will come as a Judge, to dispense rewards and punishments, infinitely exceeding the greatest that any earthly potentate has the dispensing of. The terror of men’s tribunal (Matt. 10:18) will be taken off by a believing prospect of the glory of Christ’s tribunal. Secondly, Men will then be rewarded, not according to their gains in this world, but according to their works, according to what they were and did. In that day, the treachery of backsliders will be punished with eternal destruction, and the constancy of faithful souls recompensed with a crown of life. Thirdly, The best preparative for that day is to deny ourselves, and take up our cross, and follow Christ; for so we shall make the Judge our Friend, and these things will then pass well in the account. Fourthly, The rewarding of men according to their works is deferred till that day. Here good and evil seem to be dispensed promiscuously; we see not apostasy punished with immediate strokes, nor fidelity encouraged with immediate smiles, from heaven; but in that day all will be set to rights. Therefore judge nothing before the time, 2 Tim. 4:6-8.
(2.) The near approach of his kingdom in this world, Matt. 16:28. It was so near, that there were some attending him who should live to see it. As Simeon was assured that he should not see death till he had seen the Lord’s Christ come in the flesh; so some here are assured that they shall not taste death (death is a sensible thing, its terrors are seen, its bitterness is tasted) till they had seen the Lord’s Christ coming in his kingdom. At the end of time, he shall come in his Father’s glory; but now, in the fulness of time, he was to come in his own kingdom, his mediatorial kingdom. Some little specimen was given of his glory a few days after this, in his transfiguration (Matt. 17:1); then he tried his robes. But this points at Christ’s coming by the pouring out of his Spirit, the planting of the gospel church, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the taking away of the place and nation of the Jews, who were the most bitter enemies to Christianity. Here was the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Many then present lived to see it, particularly John, who lived till after the destruction of Jerusalem, and saw Christianity planted in the world. Let this encourage the followers of Christ to suffer for him, [1.] That their undertaking shall be succeeded; the apostles were employed in setting up Christ’s kingdom; let them know, for their comfort, that whatever opposition they meet with, yet they shall carry their point, shall see of the travail of their soul. Note, It is a great encouragement to suffering saints to be assured, not only of the safety, but of the advancement of Christ’s kingdom among men; not only notwithstanding their sufferings, but by their sufferings. A believing prospect of the success of the kingdom of grace, as well as of our share in the kingdom of glory, may carry us cheerfully through our sufferings. [2.] That their cause shall be pleaded; their deaths shall be revenged, and their persecutors reckoned with. [3.] That this shall be done shortly, in the present age. Note, The nearer the church’s deliverances are, the more cheerful should we be in our sufferings for Christ. Behold the Judge standeth before the door. It is spoken as a favour to those that should survive the present cloudy time, that they should see better days. Note, It is desirable to share with the church in her joys, Dan. 12:12. Observe, Christ saith, Some shall live to see those glorious days, not all; some shall enter into the promised land, but others shall fall in the wilderness. He does not tell them who shall live to see this kingdom, lest if they had known, they should have put off the thoughts of dying, but some of them shall; Behold, the Lord is at hand. The Judge standeth before the door; be patient, therefore, brethren.
“I certainly concur. One of the most damnable heresies of our times.”
2,000 years of failed predictions and false hope from futurists is the most “damnable heresy”, and is keeping people out of churches because the church is a laughingstock over this. Harold Camping was a charlatan. Jack van Impe is a false teacher. Hal Lindsey has more than a few failed predictions, and Tim LaHaye profits from this nonsense, and these are just a few of the many frauds and false teachers who push this junk theology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_and_claims_for_the_Second_Coming_of_Christ
Futurism is the one thing all apocalyptic cults have in common, from the Millerites and JW’s, to the Heaven’s Gate cult and Branch Davidians.
Full Preterism is the only doctrine that harmonizes all apocalyptic scripture in its proper context. And it’s the only interpretation of scripture that doesn’t have to rewrite or change the words of Christ and His apostles to fit an ill-founded belief.
Exactly.
I. This looks as if we had no hope, 1 Thess. 4:13. It is to act too much like the Gentiles, who had no hope of a better life after this; whereas we Christians, who have a most sure hope, the hope of eternal life after this, which God who cannot lie hath promised us, should moderate all our joys and our sorrows on account of any worldly thing. This hope is more than enough to balance all our griefs upon account of any of the crosses of the present time.
II. This is an effect of ignorance concerning those who are dead, 1 Thess. 4:13. There are some things which we cannot be ignorant of concerning those that are asleep; for the land they are removed to is a land of darkness, which we know but little of and have no correspondence with. To go among the dead is to go among we know not whom, and to live we know not how. Death is an unknown thing, and the state of the dead, or the state after death, we are much in the dark about; yet there are some things concerning those especially who die in the Lord that we need not, and ought not, to be ignorant of; and, if these things be really understood and duly considered, they will be sufficient to allay our sorrow concerning them.
1. They sleep in Jesus. They are asleep, 1 Thess. 4:13. They have fallen asleep in Christ, 1 Cor. 15:18. Death does not annihilate them. It is but a sleep to them. It is their rest, and undisturbed rest. They have retired out of this troublesome world, to rest from all their labours and sorrows, and they sleep in Jesus, 1 Thess. 4:14. Being still in union with him, they sleep in his arms and are under his special care and protection. Their souls are in his presence, and their dust is under his care and power; so that they are not lost, nor are they losers, but great gainers by death, and their removal out of this world is into a better.
2. They shall be raised up from the dead, and awakened out of their sleep, for God will bring them with him, 1 Thess. 4:14. They then are with God, and are better where they are than when they were here; and when God comes he will bring them with him. The doctrine of the resurrection and the second coming of Christ is a great antidote against the fear of death and inordinate sorrow for the death of our Christian friends; and this doctrine we have a full assurance of, because we believe that Jesus died and rose again, 1 Thess. 4:14. It is taken for granted that as Christians they knew and believed this. The death and resurrection of Christ are fundamental articles of the Christian religion, and give us hope of a joyful resurrection; for Christ, having risen from the dead, has become the first fruits of those that slept; and therefore those who have fallen asleep in him have not perished nor are lost, 1 Cor. 15:18, 20. His resurrection is a full confirmation of all that is said in the gospel, or by the word of the Lord, which has brought life and immortality to light.
3. Their state and condition shall be glorious and happy at the second coming of Christ. This the apostle informs the Thessalonians of by the word of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:15), by divine revelation from the Lord Jesus; for though the resurrection of the dead, and a future state of blessedness, were part of the creed of the Old-Testament saints, yet they are much more clearly revealed in and by the gospel. By this word of the Lord we know, (1.) That the Lord Jesus will come down from heaven in all the pomp and power of the upper world (1 Thess. 4:16): The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout. He ascended into heaven after his resurrection, and passed through these material heavens into the third heaven, which must retain him till the restitution of all things; and then he will come again, and appear in his glory. He will descend from heaven into this our air, 1 Thess. 4:17. The appearance will be with pomp and power, with a shout—the shout of a king, and the power and authority of a mighty king and conqueror, with the voice of the archangel; an innumerable company of angels will attend him. Perhaps one, as general of those hosts of the Lord, will give notice of his approach, and the glorious appearance of this great Redeemer and Judge will be proclaimed and ushered in by the trump of God. For the trumpet shall sound, and this will awaken those that sleep in the dust of the earth, and will summon all the world to appear. For, (2.) The dead shall be raised: The dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thess. 4:16), before those who are found alive at Christ’s coming shall be changed; and so it appears that those who shall then be found alive shall not prevent those that are asleep, 1 Thess. 4:15. The first care of the Redeemer in that day will be about his dead saints; he will raise them before the great change passes on those that shall be found alive: so that those who did not sleep in death will have no greater privilege or joy at that day than those who fell asleep in Jesus. (3.) Those that shall be found alive will then be changed. They shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, 1 Thess. 4:17. At, or immediately before, this rapture into the clouds, those who are alive will undergo a mighty change, which will be equivalent to dying. This change is so mysterious that we cannot comprehend it: we know little or nothing of it, 1 Cor. 15:51. Only, in the general, this mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies will be made fit to inherit the kingdom of God, which flesh and blood in its present state are not capable of. This change will be in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor. 15:52), in the very instant, or not long after the raising up of those that sleep in Jesus. And those who are raised, and thus changed, shall meet together in the clouds, and there meet with their Lord, to congratulate him on his coming, to receive the crown of glory he will then bestow upon them, and to be assessors with him in judgment, approving and applauding the sentence he will then pass upon the prince of the power of the air, and all the wicked, who shall be doomed to destruction with the devil and his angels. (4.) Here is the bliss of the saints at that day: they shall be ever with the Lord, 1 Thess. 4:17. It will be some part of their felicity that all the saints shall meet together, and remain together for ever; but the principal happiness of heaven is this, to be with the Lord, to see him, live with him, and enjoy him, for ever. This should comfort the saints upon the death of their friends, that, although death has made a separation, yet their souls and bodies will meet again; we and they shall meet together again: we and they shall meet together again: we and they with all the saints shall meet our Lord, and be with him for ever, no more to be separated wither from him or from one another for ever. And the apostle would have us comfort one another with these words, 1 Thess. 4:18. We should endeavour to support one another in times of sorrow, not deaden one another’s spirits, nor weaken one another’s hands, but should comfort one another; and this may be done by serious consideration and discourse on the many good lessons to be learned from the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead, the second coming of Christ, and the glory of the saints in that day.
It’s been a long time. Good to see that you still fight the good fight. God’s peace to you.
Yes it did.
No it didn’t. Your quote from Zechariah 12 has not happened yet either. The Old Testament and the New Testament are in 100% agreement here, which is one of the agreements that vexes atheists so much. Thank God for that! :-)
The Preterist view is very unattractive to me. It pretty much says that Jerusalem is finished, that the founding of Israel in 1948 meant nothing in a historical sense, and that the persecution of Jews in the past 2 centuries means nothing now since the proper Kingdom of God has finally come.
That’s repugnant to me. There is more to be done before we can declare our work as Christians completed.
There is to be a new heaven and a new earth and the old one are to pass away (Revelation 21:21). There is no need for this if the current state of affairs is now all right with the Lord.
There is going to be a horrible global tribulation where Christians are persecuted for refusing to do what the atheists tell them - us - to do. Israel has nuclear bombs, and soon, many of the Middle Eastern countries will have them as well, and they don’t have the inhibitions the West has had in using them.
If Israel gets hit with nukes, they’re going to return fire. The Book of Isaiah leads me to believe that Israel’s target will be Syria - Damascus.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
The one and only thing I have to say to you is at least you are a full preterist. The so called partial preterists aren’t willing to go where their kind of hermeneutics demands. If one is determined to be a heretic, might as well go whole hog.
On theology proper (beliefs about God), one might as well be a Unitarian and fully deny Christ as God, as go partial as the Arians do and make him a demigod.
The Unitarians and Arians are to theology proper, what full and partial preterists are to eschatology.
Deity of Christ heretics of Christianity. Preterists the prophetic heretics of Christianity.
Both are reprobates, it has been my experience, they are both a waste of time. Neither would recognize the truth if it were a 2X4 hitting them between the eyes.
This is all I have to say to you, I won’t be responding to any of your preterist nonsense.
“Preterists the prophetic heretics of Christianity.
Both are reprobates, it has been my experience, they are both a waste of time. Neither would recognize the truth if it were a 2X4 hitting them between the eyes.
This is all I have to say to you, I won’t be responding to any of your preterist nonsense.”
OK,then. Buh-bye! Thanks for not trolling in this thread anymore!
Matthew Henry Bible Commentary
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18"
Once again, Paul was writing of events soon to take place, as is clear in II Thessalonians 1:
Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you. 2 Thessalonians 1:4-10
Paul is telling the Thessalonian church (not the modern church) that THEY will be avenged when Christ comes - not in our lifetime but THEIRS! Seriously, people need to understand this thing called "audience relevance" to understand the apostles' words in context!
The themes of the conflict between God and Satan have a way of repeating themselves throughout history. This leads to such things as a near and far view of prophecies both being fulfilled. The pinnacle is in Christ but that isn’t necessarily the latest in the time of this mortal coil.
Anyhow, equating futurism (or a meaningful future aspect of prophecy) with spiritual laziness, as though the two had to be inseparable, is not godly. When one knows Christ well, laziness becomes as blasphemy and is avoided for the sake of the love of Christ, regardless of minute details.
And in a futurist understanding they are going to be resurrected to see this avenging... I thought you had a more complex argument than this.
“I don’t believe anyone in 70 AD saw any of these things happen. Therefore, “this generation” is not the generation from 70 AD.”
So what you’re really saying is, “My belief forms the basis for my understanding of the Bible.”
Seems to me you have it completely backwards.
History sometimes furnishes precursors to later completed events. It does not always need to be an utter either-or. That is a silly procrustean bed.
Maybe you have it sideways.
The bible and faith harmonize.
Yes, it did:
And following Him was a large crowd of the people, and of women who were mourning and lamenting Him. But Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. "For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' "Then they will begin TO SAY TO THE MOUNTAINS, 'FALL ON US,' AND TO THE HILLS, 'COVER US.' Luke 23:27-30
This was fulfilled in the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem, and it's that destruction about which Zechariah prophesied. And here is verse 30's parallel in Revelation:
Then the kings of the earth [land] and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" Revelation 6:15-17
You can choose to ignore the evidence all you wish, but it won't hasten Christ's return because He already appeared to that generation: the generation that crucified Him and persecuted His apostles.
That is what the NT actually teaches.
“History sometimes furnishes precursors to later completed events. It does not always need to be an utter either-or.”
Christ was quite specific about this and His apostles - those who contributed to the NT through their letters - were both specific and urgent in their appeals through them.
History did repeat itself: the destruction of 586 BC was repeated in 70 AD. The difference was Peter, like John the Baptist and Christ, stated specifically that they were living in “the last days.” By the time John wrote his epistles, they were in “the last hour.” And by the time he wrote Revelation (68 AD), Christ told Him to write to the seven churches, “I am coming soon.” Not once, but repeatedly.
Now, did God know the day and the hour of Christ’s parousia? If so, why do people not believe these words:
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:1-3
If not, why would God Himself tell John to write them???
No, my friend, there is only one “end of the age”, and that was the end about which both Daniel and John wrote:
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.” Daniel 12:4
And he *said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10
Now, look at the first 3 verses of Daniel 12 and see what all was to happen and when: the resurrection and judgment. And when did this happen?
...When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” Daniel 12:7
The power of Daniel’s people was “finally broken” in 70 AD, signified by the destruction of their city and temple. It was the end of Jewish civil and religious society.
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