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What We Think of Ourselves Is Important
World Invisible.com Library Tozer ^ | 1966 | A.W.Tozer, Pastor, Christian and Missionary Alliance

Posted on 01/13/2015 9:39:44 AM PST by metmom

THE MAN WHO IS SERIOUSLY CONVINCED that he deserves to go to hell is not likely to go there, while the man who believes that he is worthy of heaven will certainly never enter that blessed place.

I use the word "seriously" to accent true conviction and to distinguish it from mere nominal belief.

It is possible to go through life believing that we believe, while actually having no conviction more vital than a conventional creed inherited from our ancestors or picked up from the general religious notions current in our social circle. If this creed requires that we admit our own depravity we do so and feel proud of our fidelity to the Christian faith. But from the way we love, praise and pamper ourselves it is plain enough that we do not consider ourselves worthy of damnation.

A revealing proof of this is seen in the squeamish way religious writers use words. An amusing example is found in a cautious editorial change made in the song "The Comforter Has Come." One stanza reads:

"O boundless love divine!

How shall this tongue of mine,

To wondering mortals tell

The matchless grace divine -

That I, a child of hell,

Should in His image shine!"

That is how Dr. Bottome felt it and that is how he wrote it; and the man who has seen the holiness of God and the pollution of his own heart will sing it as it was written, for his whole inner life will respond to the experience. Even if he cannot find chapter and verse to brand hint a child of hell, Ins heart indicts him and he eagerly accuses himself before God as fit only for perdition. This is to experience something profounder than theology, more painfully intimate than creed, and while bitter and harsh it is true to the man's Spirit illuminated view of himself. In so confessing, the enlightened heart is being faithful to the terrible fact while it is singing its own condemnation. This I believe is greatly pleasing to God.

It is, I repeat, amusing if somewhat distressing to come upon an editorial change in this song, which was made obviously in the interest of correct theology, but is once removed from reality and twice removed from true moral feeling. In one hymnal it is made to read,

"That I a child of SIN

Should in His image shine!"

The fastidious song cobbler who made that alteration simply could not think of himself as ever having been a "child of hell." A finicky choice of words sometimes tells us more about a man than the man knows about himself.

This one instance, if isolated in Christian literature, ought not be too significant, but when this kind of thing occurs everywhere as thick as dandelions in a meadow it becomes highly significant indeed. The mincing religious prudery heard in the average pulpit is all a part of this same thing-- art unwillingness to admit the depths of our inner depravity. We do not actually assent to God's judgement of us except as we hold it as a superficial creed. When the pressure is on we back out. A child of sin? Maybe. A child of hell? No.

Our Lord -told of two men who appeared before God in prayer, a Pharisee who recited his virtues and a publican who beat on his breast and pleaded for mercy. The first was rejected, the other justified.

We manage to live with that story in some degree of comfort only by keeping it at full arm's length and never permitting it to catch hold of our conscience. These two men are long ago dead and their story has become it little religious classic. We are different, and how can anything so remote apply to us? So we reason on a level only slightly above our unconscious, and draw what comfort we can from the vagueness and remoteness of it all.

But why should we not face up to it? The truth is that this happened not a long while ago, but yesterday, this morning; not far-away, but here where some of us last knelt to pray. These two men are not dead, but alive, and are found in the local church, at the missionary convention and the deeper life conference here, now, today.

Every man lives at last by his secret philosophy as an airplane flies on its electric beam. It is the profound conviction that we are wholly unworthy of future blessedness, that, we are indeed by nature fitted only for destruction, that leads to true repentance. The man who inwardly believes that lie is too good to perish will certainly perish unless he experiences a radical change of heart about himself.

The poor quality of Christian that grows out of our modern evangelistic meeting may be accounted for by the absence of real repentance accompanying the initial spiritual experience of the converts. And the absence of repentance is the result of an inadequate view of sin and sinfulness held by those who present themselves in the inquiry room.

"No fears, no grace," said Bunyan. "Though there is not always grace where there is fear of hell, yet, to be sure, there is no grace where there is no fear of God." And again, "I care not at all for that profession which begins not in heaviness of mind .... For the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and they that lack the beginning have neither middle nor end."


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Worship
KEYWORDS: tozer
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To: Mark17

Who doesn't like PRAISE songs???










(click)
Praise to the Man!
 
 
 
Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


21 posted on 01/13/2015 11:25:40 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

LOL Yeah, I think that was a typo.


22 posted on 01/13/2015 11:29:47 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: metmom

Yes, the church needs prayer.

In truth, we do have men like Tozer. I have been blessed to know such men in my life. The Lord has many faithful servants toiling away in obscurity all over this planet. Sadly, they are often dismissed or overlooked. I could write thousands of words on why that might be the case.


23 posted on 01/13/2015 11:30:17 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: Elsie; metmom
Good posts y'all (a little southern lingo there) but it is 3:30 AM here, so back to sleep for me. Talk to y'all later.

:-)

24 posted on 01/13/2015 11:33:34 AM PST by Mark17 (Weary and worn, facing for sinners, death on the cross, that He might save them from endless loss)
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To: PieterCasparzen

.
>> “Unless “hymn” lyrics are copied from the divinely-inspired Bible, they are human-devised.

Human-devised lyrics, if used in worship, lead to doctrinal error.” <<

.
Exactly!

Its the theologians Vs. the apostles, as usual.

.


25 posted on 01/13/2015 11:38:17 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: .45 Long Colt

It’s because people don’t want to hear it but want to hear what the Hinn’s, Osteens, and other televangelists have to offer.


26 posted on 01/13/2015 12:15:37 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Mark17

“Brutal” is the word!

YES INDEED!


27 posted on 01/13/2015 3:18:37 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Elsie

Not even as an airport layover.


28 posted on 01/13/2015 3:20:43 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: left that other site
Not even as an airport layover.

I flew down from Mountain Home AFB, ID to Hill AFB, UT, and back on a USAF T-39 once, in 1969, but I did have a layover at Salt Lake City airport, coming from Minneapolis, on my way to Mt Home. It was 1968 and I was a catholic at the time, and I had only small knowledge of the Mormons, but I saw some guy, wearing cover alls and horn rimmed glasses, and I thought if I ever had a stereotype of what a mormon would look like, this guy fit it perfectly.

29 posted on 01/13/2015 3:41:46 PM PST by Mark17 (Weary and worn, facing for sinners, death on the cross, that He might save them from endless loss)
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To: Mark17

Well, over a half century ago, my dad (a Classical Music Lover) had an LP of the Mormon tab. Choir. He bought it specifically for The Hallelujah Chorus, but even i, as a little hippie child, knew that the other songs had been “altered”.

Most egregious was Shubert’s “Ave Maria” which had an entirely different set of lyrics. (I know, i know...it wasn’t even originally “Ave Maria” either. It was “The lady of the Lake”)! LOL


30 posted on 01/13/2015 4:10:11 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: left that other site

https://www.google.com/search?q=mormon+changed+hymns&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&gws_rd=ssl


31 posted on 01/13/2015 4:21:24 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: left that other site
https://www.google.com/search?q=mormon+changed+hymns&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&gws_rd=ssl



I was listening to songs on YOUTUBE today and came across the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing Holy Holy Holy.

In place of
"Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty!
God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!"
they say
"God in his glory, blessed Deity".

The images are pretty Mormon too, like when they say "all the saints adore thee" there's an image of people with Joseph Smith!

I think the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is a great choir, but I wonder how many other Christian songs they have altered? Any one know of others?

Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJBxK0IQ6XE                    from http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=570801

32 posted on 01/13/2015 4:25:02 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

When they start messin’ with Christmas carols, that’s where I draw the line! LOLOL!


33 posted on 01/13/2015 4:29:25 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Elsie

Looks more like “Hie Thee To Hubble”.


34 posted on 01/13/2015 4:31:57 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Elsie

I will tell you a little story!

A few years ago I belonged to a Classical Music Club. They had a big sale on an all male choir collection of cds that had everything from Gregorian Chant to Negro Spirituals, and even Russian Liturgical Music. I eagerly purchased several cds, as I LOVE acapella male choirs.

I put on the first one..the notes were perfect, the blending and arrangements were gorgeous, and the harmonies were pristine.

And I HATED it! there was something weird and ugly that I couldn’t put my finger on.

So I put on the next one. Same effect. It was making my flesh crawl.

The next one was the Russian Music (my favorite, and I know it very well) Arrgghh! there was that “thing” again.

Last, but not least was the Negro Spirituals. It was the worst one of all with that almost palpable, spiritual darkness emanating through the music. There was also a tinge of mockery in the Dialect that offended me. And I am not even Black!

I couldn’t understand why this beloved music, so well produced and sung was disturbing my inner being so much.

Then I read the liner notes (very tiny on a cd!).

This was the premier “Gay Men’s Choir” who were world renowned, PRIMARILY for being gay. They travel the world advocating for homosexuality and AIDS awareness.

I was stunned that this “spirit” could actually come through the music. I honestly hadn’t known.

Needless to say they went out in the trash the next morning.


35 posted on 01/13/2015 4:47:50 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Elsie
I think the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is a great choir, but I wonder how many other Christian songs they have altered?

Who knows? All of them maybe?

36 posted on 01/13/2015 9:48:14 PM PST by Mark17 (Weary and worn, facing for sinners, death on the cross, that He might save them from endless loss)
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To: left that other site
This was the premier “Gay Men’s Choir” who were world renowned, PRIMARILY for being gay.
They travel the world advocating for homosexuality and AIDS awareness.
I was stunned that this “spirit” could actually come through the music.


Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
 

 
 
 
 
 
 


The Health Risks of gay sex.


37 posted on 01/14/2015 2:29:37 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: left that other site; teppe; Normandy
Since we've already talked about Mormonism in this thread, and now homosexuality; why not combine them and talk about Gay Mormons?





I'm a MORMON ...
 
 
 

http://www.affirmation.org/

38 posted on 01/14/2015 2:38:58 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Indeed. It is a deeply spiritual thing. Usually, in Classical Music, the proclivities of the artist do not intrude so much, because all the notes and lyrics are performed as written, and the “agenda” doesn’t have space to wiggle out in such a rigid structure.

However, when costumes, sets, and artwork is involved, such as in The Opera or Dance, it becomes much easier for the “agenda” to be presented, under the guise of being “creative” or “edgy”. Even without changing the lyrics or the plot, the agenda is pushed through actions, visuals, and innuendo. Several years ago there was a big brouhaha over some gestures in the Boston Ballet’s “Nutcracker”, which is SUPPOSED to be for children.

However, this “man’s choir” didn’t have costumes, sets, facial expressions, or even gestures to alert me to the wickedness that was being emitted. It was in the VOICES. There have been only three other times I have encountered something that creeped me out that way. Two of the times were in mosques(on a Holy land tour) and the third time was at an exhibit that included artifacts from Dachau.

There are more things “out there’ than we can possibly imagine, or want to.


39 posted on 01/14/2015 5:21:54 AM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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