Posted on 01/08/2015 5:33:17 AM PST by Gamecock
There went 180!
Hebrews 6:1-3 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
1 Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to things more perfect, not laying again the foundation of penance from dead works, and of faith towards God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and imposition of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
1. I do believe that for most, it DOES wind up being "once saved, always saved..."... but I don't believe that is automatically so ... hence, the passage you cite from Hebrews 6...
2. IoW, I disagree with those who say a person can't lose their salvation (Hebrews 6 & other passages indicate otherwise)
3. Re: your statement, "No one is saved yet..." Elsie isn't taking any verse out of context...In fact, it seems you deliberately ignore the apostle John:
* Jesus (via the apostle John) defines eternal life as a relationship with HIM, the real God: 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)
(that relationship doesn't simply begin once you die)
For further emphasis, see how John frequently cites "eternal life" as a present possession -- "has" and "have" -- NOT "will have":
* "36 Whoever believes in the Son HAS eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them." (John 3)
* 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life." (John 5)
* 47 "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life." (John 6)
* Therefore, John wraps this up in 1 John 5:
11 And this is the testimony: God HAS given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son HAS life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you HAVE eternal life.
I suppose, E-S, you will now have to scissor all these verses out of your Bible as being inconsistent with what you believe.
Your situation is well described in Matthew 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
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Knowing him is not an intellectual experience, it is a lifetime spiritual experience, as the above scripture clearly shows.
Its easy to buzz on by words like 'know,'and 'iniquity,' not drinking their full meaning, and it wasn't me that said we are not saved yet, it was Yeshua, and his apostles, Paul, Peter, and John.
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Here ya go!!
Redact the STRETCHED parts!!
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>> “so that you may know...” <<
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“Believing on” as it was meant by the apostles provides a means by which we may (but not necessarily will) know that we have eternal life.
“May” has always been a conditional proposition. Reading that out of the declaration of the apostle modifies the declaration’s meaning considerably, allowing for nonsense like OSAS.
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The way the verse is written, have is unquestionably future.
Only the Father knows for sure who “has” it.
But the believer surely knows whether or not he is keeping the commandments out of love, or grudging rote.
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Oh?
English is NOT your first language?
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you HAVE eternal life.
Again, “May know.”
Bible is not your language at all!
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Logic hard to follow?
Almost all you post is a man made rewriting of what scripture really says.
What is so logical about that?
Yeshua plainly said in Matthew 24 that “He that endures to the end, the same SHALL BE saved.”
Do you think there’s any chance that he knew what he was talking about?
Do you think that any man’s reading of any other verse should conform to such plain language from the creator himself?
Have you noted that all of the apostles have plainly said the same thing as Yeshua?
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Which part do you LIKE?
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