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To: Kandy Atz
I think its quite telling that NOT ONE scripture you cited comes from Paul’s Epistles, specifically Romans through Thessalonians, the letters written TO, FOR, and ABOUT, the Body of Christ.

What, the words of our Lord are not good enough for you unless they are backed up by Paul? But if you do want Paul, how about this one:

For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you. (Titus 1:5)
Do you follow the presbyters that have been appointed (appointed, not selected by the congregation) in every town? Does your church even have presbyters that have been appointed since the days of the Apostles?
78 posted on 01/01/2015 6:39:10 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius; Kandy Atz
>>Does your church even have presbyters that have been appointed since the days of the Apostles?<<

The Catholics trying that tactic should first read the requirements found in 1 Timothy 3 before ever attempting that line.

174 posted on 01/02/2015 8:56:57 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Petrosius; CynicalBear
What, the words of our Lord are not good enough for you unless they are backed up by Paul?

Please allow the elevator to reach the top.

Are you a Jew, a Gentile, or a child of God? Are you part of Israel, the Gentiles/nations, or part of the Body of Christ, the Church? Do you even know the differences? Its important because the Bible is FOR everyone, but not written TO or ABOUT everyone. Failure to understand this very basic principle has led to all sorts of error, compounded by almost 2,000 years of religious ignorance.

Jesus and Paul are not at odds. They have the same source - God, who IS TRUTH. However, what Jesus taught, and what Paul taught, is very different. Why? Put your theological big boy britches on and answer that conundrum. It is only possible if they are teaching different people and/or at a different time. You can't be told that your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees by Jesus, and then be told you are righteous by faith by Paul and they both be Truth, UNLESS you belong to a different group living in a different administration. The Body of Christ is NEITHER Jew or Gentile, male or female, Baptist, or Catholic, etc. Jesus revealed this Truth through Paul, a revelation that was HIDDEN IN GOD, a Mystery not revealed until AFTER Israel rejected their king, the cornerstone.

This principle continues throughout the NT, and you must be careful to note who is addressed in each letter. You cannot be "zealous of the Law" and at the same time be dead to the Law. Nor can you be a servant/slave, and also be a child of God. Its impossible to be an old sinner, and also a new creation in Christ. And finally, you can't look to works to save you, if by Grace you are saved through faith. Its a gift of God, not earned so that nobody can boast in anything other than Jesus.

So much religious error comes from attempts to apply what belongs to Israel, to the Body of Christ. In an age where knowledge abounds and you have instant access to every Bible translation, study aid, ministry, theological opinion, and most importantly the Holy Spirit dwelling inside you, this should NOT be the case.

But if you do want Paul, how about this one: For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you. (Titus 1:5)

Hey look, I can cherry pick a verse to! Should we go and do likewise?

Matthew 27:5 (KJV)

5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Do you follow the presbyters that have been appointed (appointed, not selected by the congregation) in every town? Does your church even have presbyters that have been appointed since the days of the Apostles?

No. Believers are a Spiritual Body with Jesus as the Head, and only HEAD. There is no earthly priesthood for Believers, no monarchy, no religious nobility, no popes, no cardinals, not even a blue jay. God places everyone in the Body where HE pleases. Paul and Titus were directed by the Holy Spirit and appointed elders, or shepherds over the flock, not little dictators in fancy costumes. God help the congregation stuck under some man placed over them by some spiritually dead denomination.

BTW - Did you note their qualifications listed in Titus 1?

1. Blameless

2. Husband of one wife

3. Having faithful children

4. Not self-willed

5. Not soon angry

6. Not given to wine

7. No striker

8. Not given to filthy lucre - using wrong methods to raise money to increase his own income

9. A lover of hospitality

10. A lover of good men - the quality of goodness in men, not same-sex attraction

11. Sober

12. Just

13. Holy

14. Temperate

And my favorite ...

15. Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

In the last 2,000 years, how many priests, pastors, popes, bishops, etc., met all these requirements?

289 posted on 01/02/2015 4:49:09 PM PST by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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