Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[Mark17]

Indeed. If Mary did have a unique continent marriage contrary to its description of leave and cleave, then I think Joseph should get more credit, as it normally I think it would be far harder for the male. Kind of like having a wedding cake in the refer but never eating it.

Yep. I doubt any of us Christian men could handle the situation of having a wedding cake and never eating it. I don't think most Christian women could handle it either, so either Mary and Joseph had other children, after Jesus was born, which is what I am sure happened, or Joseph doesn't get half the credit he deserves. All you need to do, is look at my profile page, to see my wedding cake, and you will understand.

😉

[metmom]

People, here, are of the Protestant faith, and they will have to accept it.

Nope. We don't have to accept a Catholic definition of who we are.

If that's the case, then non-Catholics have the right to define Catholicism for Catholics and they have to accept the non-Catholic definition of what constitutes a Catholic.

[metmom]

Probably time off in purgatory.

[metmom]

Celibate would be less perjorative.

And less true.

[imardmd1]

There’s nothing like straddling the fence. But does Jesus know how to ride a bicycle? or better yet, a Harley?

[boatbums]

Note also that relegating texts which plainly state it is "Not by works of righteousness which we have done... (Titus 3:5) as only excluding of works being salvific if done under the Law versus works of charity, ignores the fact that the reason Paul sometimes uses the Law - which Titus 3:5 does not, and was written to a Gentile - is because "if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21)

Good point that bears repeating. The Law of Moses was considered the epitome of laws. Whatever works men dream up that they think surpass God's law, only demonstrate how impotent they really are. And indeed, if righteousness could have come through any law, it would have been the one God gave to Moses.

[boatbums]

That is true! When little kids are exposed to the actions and words of adults, there is little effort to keep after them and make sure they are not being misunderstood.

[verga]

I stumbled onto that and thought it might be interesting given the circumstances.

Thank you for posting this. Couple of points jumped out at me:

1) The reason they even earnestly demand a cited verse is because they themselves have no understanding of god in their hearts nor does such a person even know Jesus Christ. For them the Bible is a crutch or a wheel chair, for you it is supposed to be nothing more then a guide.

I would also add club to bludgeon you with.

2) It is Amazing how you feel you can pick and choose what laws are no longer important and what laws are. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not mad- But as christians we are not bound to any laws of the Bible except for Christs law AKA The Royal Law.

3) We call ourselves Christians Because we are subject to the New Law. It is called “The Royal Law” it was given to us by Jesus Christ. This means very literally all the laws of Moses (including the 10 commandments) are voided because we find Salvation in Jesus!!! Where as before we were required to create our own salvation (which was the point of god sending those laws). This was the whole point of Jesus!!!

[metmom]

Fwiw, now that you're on the receiving end, have you ever noticed how Only a Pharisee Will Use Bible Verses to Argue?

Has God REALLY said.....?

I guess that means that Jesus was a Pharisee when He used Scripture verses to counter the temptation of Satan in the wilderness.

Matthew 4:1-11

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written,

“‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,’

and

“‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

Jesus said to him,

“Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him,

“Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.

Luke 4:1-13 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry.

The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” And Jesus answered him,

“It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’”

And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”

And Jesus answered him,

“It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”

And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, for it is written,

“‘He will command his angels concerning you, to guard you,’

and

“‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

And Jesus answered him,

“It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time.

[metmom]

Colossians 2:16-23 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations—“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

[BlueDragon]

Well, sure, I'll "admit" what you're implying here.

But when you stepped up and followed thru with that -- still not get a solid hit.

I've gotta' hand it to you though...that was a kinda' flashy, double-jointed swing at the ball, sorta' like a batters version of the "down under" style of (now deceased) relief pitcher for the KC Royals, Dan Quisenberry

Kansas City Royals - Ace Reliever

When protecting the plate, going for deflection...fouling them away...

...the ball needs to go somewhere no one can reach it.

One of my teammates saw the pop-up...and keeping his eye on it, watched it come back down, right into his glove.

Batter is out!

Better luck, next year...

[rwa265]

I was merely suggesting a less offensive word that could be used when expressing disagreement with the Catholic teaching on the virginity of Mary. Members of my family do not agree with this teaching, and we are very respectful of each others’ beliefs. Truth be told, it is not a big issue with me. I can see where Mary and Joseph could have had children after the birth of Jesus without affecting our salvation.

While I am posting both of you, metmom and Elsie, I want to mention the Weslayan Ritual for the Consecration and Distribution of the Bread and Wine. I do not remember which one of you shared it on Free Republic, but the description was very similar to what I remember the Methodist ritual to be, and it brought back wonderful memories of attending Methodist worship services with my Mom when she was alive. It is a beautiful remembrance of the Lord’s Supper.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Happy New Year to you both! May 2015 be filled with many blessings in your lives and marriages. I’m glad we became friends in ‘14 :-)

Maybe we’ll have a chance to visit you there some day.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“You can have an intelligent conversation with a protestant. Prots give one liner replies, frequently in the form of a joke that does not address the issue. They will focus on a single point that is tangential at best.”

Wait...

You’re saying terrycarl is a prof???

Wait...

Did I just give a one-line reply???

Wait...

Is this tangential???

[terycarl]

You are correct sir. I was a catholic myself, till I was 21. I was in the USAF at the time, when some guys with the Navigators got to me, and told me the truth.

people have misrepresented the Catholic since the 1600's when some decided that they knew more about what Christianity taught that did the Church that Christ Himself founded...The guys with the Navigators lied to you....good thing they weren't Mormans!!

[terycarl]

They really are debating that possibility....stunning uh?

no they aren't.

[miss marmelstein]

Then you need to back off defining who Catholics are. Something you do every day here.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I am not sure what that sentence means.

Happy New Year, Elsie!

[metmom]

Then you need to back off defining who Catholics are. Something you do every day here.

Catholics then need to back off defining who non-Catholics are, something they do every day.