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Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?
self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; blessedvirginmary; catholic; mary; mystery; mysterybabylon; prayer; rcinventions; vanities; vanity; worship
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To: Springfield Reformer
So too with ke-charitomene. We know this is the perfect because of the doubling of the first syllable, sort of like an intentional stutter to signal the perfect, ke-keritomene. What we DON’T have is any sort of qualitative indicator on grace, as we do in John 1:14, where “full of grace” is explicit. Instead, what we have in Luke is that this grace/favor was shown to her at some indeterminate point in the past and that it continues to the present.

But such objective analysis must mean you hate Mary!

Hopefully Akin’s comment, cited in your post, suggests that this amateurish tactic is in it’s waning days. Certainly there are more significant arguments to be undertaken, and Akin seems to get that, at least in regard to this issue, and that’s a good thing

Seeing how often specious RC apologetics are recycled, "waning days" is more hopeful than realistic.

4,401 posted on 12/31/2014 12:18:44 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: annalex
...." We do these things for the love of God"....

If that were a true statement catholics wouldn't be opposing God by behavior which defies His revealed words....

" Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God"......Lev.26

catholics praying and kneeling to an image of a departed pope

It is no different then these pagan worshippers

Buddah's priesthood

catholicism priesthood


4,402 posted on 12/31/2014 12:23:00 PM PST by caww
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To: af_vet_1981
I feel like you are just baiting me now. I feel like you don't really care what I believe as long as I believe something contrary to what you believe. I feel like this dialog is pointless and I waste my time trying to explain to you what I think and believe after you pepper me with questions. I feel like the Holy Spirit is telling me to pray for you more and post to you less. Buh-bye!
4,403 posted on 12/31/2014 12:24:41 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: daniel1212
Seeing how often specious RC apologetics are recycled, "waning days" is more hopeful than realistic.

Well and good, but I am pathetically optimistic ... so I do keep hoping. :)

4,404 posted on 12/31/2014 12:25:01 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Your post led me to do a search on Talmud and Torah. I am not familiar with the website, but this is what I found:

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/religion-miscellaneous/difference-between-talmud-and-torah/


4,405 posted on 12/31/2014 12:26:55 PM PST by rwa265
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To: Springfield Reformer
Error:

"What we DON’T have is any sort of qualitative indicator on grace"

Should be:

What we DON’T have is any sort of quantitative indicator on grace

4,406 posted on 12/31/2014 12:32:09 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer; daniel1212
Seeing how often specious RC apologetics are recycled, "waning days" is more hopeful than realistic.

It's enough to drive a man to drink listen to beer drinkin' muzik...


4,407 posted on 12/31/2014 12:41:15 PM PST by BlueDragon (just the facts, ma'am)
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To: miss marmelstein
Read over some others’ posts to see that respect in action. I especially liked the word one of them used: frigid. You should be chiding these people but I’ll wait...

In regard to the Mary of the Bible, or the Mary made up by the Catholic church?

The Mary of the Bible had normal sexual relations with her own husband, so the term doesn't apply to her.

Applying it to the fabrication that Catholics pass off as the Mary of the Bible is of no consequence.

It can't be disrespectful of the real Mary because it's not said in regard to the real Mary.

4,408 posted on 12/31/2014 12:41:22 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

Well, you’re in a very specious mood today!


4,409 posted on 12/31/2014 12:47:35 PM PST by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: Loyalty Binds Me)
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To: BlueDragon
"I can think of a few other, ah, groups who do very much the very same thing among themselves."

Well, sure, I'll "admit" what you're implying here. And it's not a problem. They follow Pharisaic Tradition, we follow Apostolic Tradition. Big difference.

If it weren't for Apostolic Tradition, there would be no New Testament.

4,410 posted on 12/31/2014 12:59:57 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." - 1 Timothy 3:15)
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To: daniel1212; Springfield Reformer
So too with ke-charitomene. We know this is the perfect because of the doubling of the first syllable, sort of like an intentional stutter to signal the perfect, ke-keritomene. What we DON’T have is any sort of qualitative indicator on grace, as we do in John 1:14, where “full of grace” is explicit. Instead, what we have in Luke is that this grace/favor was shown to her at some indeterminate point in the past and that it continues to the present.

I've wondered about this also.

What is interesting is that we have Matthew noting Joseph was a righteous man. We have no indication of when he became righteous though we do have evidence to show he did follow the commands of the angel of the Lord. Yet no catholic would assume him to be sinless; though he is identified as righteous.

Could Luke's use of the word ke-charitomene be his way of saying that Mary also is righteous?

It is obvious from Mary's quotations of the OT that she had been raised in a family that loved God. She also recognized her status as that of a lowly handmaid or bondslave of God.

Or, could this be Luke, from his perspective as this is in the perfect tense, attempting to say that she became favored at the announcment of Gabriel to her....greetings, you favored with grace? Is it at that moment she became favored with grace? He would be writing from a historical perspective.

Curious on ya'll's take on this.

4,411 posted on 12/31/2014 1:03:24 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: metmom

Catholics seem to get vitriolic really quickly.


4,412 posted on 12/31/2014 1:07:38 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse; Elsie
>>Apparently they keep folks locked in their closets...<<

Or just their bones. Maybe a cement statue or two.

4,413 posted on 12/31/2014 1:11:32 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: rwa265

Thanks. That seems a simple, concise explanation.


4,414 posted on 12/31/2014 1:17:56 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." - 1 Timothy 3:15)
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To: miss marmelstein; ealgeone
You bore me.

Well miss, pleading prolixity or dullness at a list of praises of Mary is unconvincing, and would merit you the "hate Mary" badge if uttered by a Prot. Me thinks it avoids the exposure of the Cath hyperventilation in praising the Mary idol they have created. Still bored?

4,415 posted on 12/31/2014 1:40:08 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: miss marmelstein
But Protestants on this thread have no respect for her.

Very few non Catholics care to reveal their denomination affiliations because then threads become about denominations instead of the issue of the article at the beginning of the thread.

But I do see that many Catholics deem anyone not Catholic as Protestants, or derogatorily as "prots."

If you have been reading this thread closely, you will see that non Catholic Christians love and respect the Mary of the Bible very much.

The Mary of Catholicism has been made into a veritable caricature of who she really was. And is. An obedient handmaid of the Lord.

We love and respect her.

4,416 posted on 12/31/2014 2:09:04 PM PST by Syncro (Jesus Christ: The ONLY mediator between God and man)
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To: miss marmelstein
You should be chiding these people but I’ll wait...

If it weren't for double standards the prots wouldn't have any at all. Remember it is only mean if a Catholic says it.

4,417 posted on 12/31/2014 2:15:09 PM PST by verga (Debating with a protestant is like playing chess with a pigeon....)
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To: Syncro

I do not use the term Prots here, although I grew up hearing the word Prod, not Prots. My family used is as a term to describe Puritanical folks who didn’t imbibe. I wouldn’t insult that way.

People, here, are of the Protestant faith, and they will have to accept it. The Catholics are the original Christian faith. Sorry if history is inconvenient.

If they respect Mary so much, they shouldn’t insult her. They do all the time here.


4,418 posted on 12/31/2014 2:40:28 PM PST by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: Loyalty Binds Me)
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To: verga

I do believe these people are atheist trolls, not Protestants. I HAVE to believe that, lol!!!


4,419 posted on 12/31/2014 2:42:27 PM PST by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: Loyalty Binds Me)
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To: miss marmelstein

Placemarker


4,420 posted on 12/31/2014 2:55:55 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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