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Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?
self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; blessedvirginmary; catholic; mary; mystery; mysterybabylon; prayer; rcinventions; vanities; vanity; worship
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To: ealgeone

It’s gotta be tough to be a Catholic....there is sooooo much material you have to keep up with.


This is why the Church promulgated the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It serves as a “sure norm for teaching the faith,” as well as a “sure and authentic reference text” for preparing local catechisms.

I would suggest that you use the Catechism as your source for raising objections to Catholic teaching. I am confident that you will find much in the Catechism that you do not like and it much more accurately reflects current Catholic beliefs than do the antiquated documents that you having been using.


3,861 posted on 12/29/2014 8:21:07 PM PST by rwa265
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To: CynicalBear
That would be the Jerome who included multiple proven translation errors into the Latin Vulgate from which the Catholic Church to this day includes in their "approved translations".

As we can see, the errors don't matter.

It's the Vulgate.

3,862 posted on 12/29/2014 8:23:09 PM PST by Syncro (Jesus Christ: The ONLY mediator between God and man)
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To: ealgeone
I wondered myself. Certainly not dogmatically. But we know another assumption beside Mary, that of Elijah.



Holy Prophet Elijah pray for us.

3,863 posted on 12/29/2014 8:23:36 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Syncro; CynicalBear; boatbums
Interesting you bringing that information as I understand the battle for this among catholics has been going on for some time.......the idea being how to make it palatable to it's membership and those outside their religion they want to pull in without offending them by claiming this.

I do believe because the great apostasy is already underway, and the deception is growing larger throughout the world that by the time the catholic leadership DO name her as the official Co-Redeemer, equal to Christ...the world will be already prepped to believe it.

Many false religions have a female entity in their belief system....so it will be like hand in glove when the time comes for the catholic leadership to lead the way to the One World Religion ...with that mary of the catholic religion more than likely will unite the religions on common ground since she could easily be found “attractive” by the religions already sold on female deities.

None of what is and will take place has anything to do with true Christianity, rather as it does today it will immitate and counterfeit it.

The enemy of the truth is not falshood...rather it's the Almost truth.

3,864 posted on 12/29/2014 8:25:00 PM PST by caww
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To: caww; St_Thomas_Aquinas

You know, your side-by-sides do show that if one had an intelligence of a cat and ventured into churches and temples, he would not understand the difference between the two.


3,865 posted on 12/29/2014 8:26:25 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: af_vet_1981; Springfield Reformer
  1. You've been around here long enough to have figured out "FRoman Catholics" are Roman Catholic FReepers. Did you seriously imagine I made that up?

  2. It seems to me that you just did what you accused me of doing "hypocritically" in your point #1. My passage is booked on the Jesus round-the-universe-for-eternity cruise. It's awesome that brave Christians throughout time have dared stand up to the elitist religious leaders when they have strayed from the truth. God continues to use such faithful men and women.

  3. I'm puzzled??? Nope, it's more than clear that many of the early church fathers understood and exhorted their disciples to hold to the authority and sufficiency of sacred Scriptures (sola Scriptura) to the point that, if they taught anything about the Christian faith which could not be proved by Scripture, they were to be ignored and the quotations demonstrated that truth.

    Any change affected in FR readers will not be because of arguments you nor I present but from how the Holy Spirit touches each heart that is ready and prepared to receive the truth as it is presented. I've already been convinced of the gospel of the grace of God which gives to us eternal life through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to the glory of God ALONE. That you continue to niggle about minor points and words shows that it may be your OWN convictions that are questioned.


3,866 posted on 12/29/2014 8:26:33 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Syncro
the image of The Sacred Heart Which One [<--------- That's a link] do you have?

I'm not certain, some of them looked very similar, some are great, some not so....whatever, I like the one that I have, it was a gift to me for my Confirmation....about 1951 or thereabouts......That's another Catholic Sacrament!!!

3,867 posted on 12/29/2014 8:28:55 PM PST by terycarl (common sense prevails over all)
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To: boatbums; CynicalBear; metmom; redleghunter
“Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Yes, but that is one man, Abraham, and in the context of him receiving the promise before he was circumcised. James 2, however, gives the general teaching.

3,868 posted on 12/29/2014 8:29:58 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: af_vet_1981
You need not be Catholic to meet us in the kingdom of heaven.

Gee, thanks. Praise God, I already knew that. Perhaps you should address a few of your fellow FRoman Catholics who have denied that possibility on this very thread? I know that facade of "unity" is important.

3,869 posted on 12/29/2014 8:30:38 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: caww
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. ....Amen

added the Doxology I see....

3,870 posted on 12/29/2014 8:31:05 PM PST by terycarl (common sense prevails over all)
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To: ealgeone

He says, it is useless without good works.


3,871 posted on 12/29/2014 8:32:37 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: CynicalBear
it is talking about Jerusalem NOT Mary

This is know in theology as a "type": the Old Testament prophet had a vague premonition of the rise of the Holy Catholic Church but cast it into what he could relate to: the fortunes of Israel, Jerusalem, etc. Israel of the Old Testament is a type of both Mary and the Church.

3,872 posted on 12/29/2014 8:35:36 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: redleghunter
where in that passage we are saved by a mix of faith and works?

Eph 2:10.

3,873 posted on 12/29/2014 8:36:57 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Elsie

answered on this thread.


3,874 posted on 12/29/2014 8:38:35 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: terycarl
Diagram the sentence. An imperative sentence with the subject "you" understood, do is the verb, THIS, is the object of the sentence and at that point, the sentence is a complete one. The added phrase "in memory of Me" merely tells us why He wants us to "Do This"....This is the consecration of the bread and wine which He had just done.

>As Christ said..."do this in remembrance of Me."<

nope...He said "do THIS in memory of me"

Actually the emphasis would be on Do this....

Do (ποιεῖτε) is in the imperative mood, which is the mood of command. It is second person plural The subject is implied by this verb, "You do...." with you being plural.

This (τοῦτο) is the pronoun and is in the accusative meaning it is the object.

What is this we are to do? Coming later in the post.

I agree the word do (ποιεῖτε) is in the imperative mood, or mood of command. It is a present imperative. In other words, we are to continually have communion to remember what Christ did for us.

The verb. εὐχαριστέω, means 2168 euxaristéō (from 2095 /eú, "good" and 5485/xaris, "grace") – properly, acknowledging that "God's grace works well," i.e. for our eternal gain and His glory; to give thanks – literally, "thankful for God's good grace."

The word remembrance (ἀνάμνησις) in the Greek means properly, deliberate recollection, done to better appreciate the effects (intended results) of what happened; active, self-prompted recollection especially as a memorial.

Definitions from HELPS Word-studies

When we eat the bread and drink the cup we give thanks and are reminded that He sacrificed His body and shed His blood for us.

3,875 posted on 12/29/2014 8:39:55 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: rwa265
I am confident that you will find much in the Catechism that you do not like and it much more accurately reflects current Catholic beliefs than do the antiquated documents that you having been using.

Amazing....pronouncements from the pope are antiquated.....and I presume to be tossed aside as the cathechism is revised and updated?

And this from the "church" that never changes it teachings??

ROTFLOL!!!!

3,876 posted on 12/29/2014 8:41:50 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Sometime, indeed Jesus is shown with an adult face and yet His size is that of a baby. That is intentional: the iconographer seeks to explain that Jesus is both Mary’s child and the Eternal God. I’ll look it up for you later.


3,877 posted on 12/29/2014 8:42:14 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
He says, it is useless without good works.

Does he still have faith?

3,878 posted on 12/29/2014 8:43:18 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: annalex
where in that passage we are saved by a mix of faith and works?

Eph 2:10.

Again...context is key.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them

3,879 posted on 12/29/2014 8:44:45 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: annalex
Sometime, indeed Jesus is shown with an adult face and yet His size is that of a baby. That is intentional: the iconographer seeks to explain that Jesus is both Mary’s child and the Eternal God. I’ll look it up for you later.

Please do because the imagery is telling.

Include the link as well if you would.

3,880 posted on 12/29/2014 8:45:46 PM PST by ealgeone
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