“Notice that He is sending His angels to gather ‘following that distress’. The distress He is talking about is found earlier and we see that is talking about the distress of the tribulation.”
That is exactly what I said. This gathering of the elect follows the signs in the heavens (namely the sun and moon being turned to darkness) which occur IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation.
“So it is at the end of the tribulation that the angels are gathering the elect but that is not talking about the ‘elect’ who have been saved during this age of grace.”
I do not see any evidence to support this claim.
“Those who have been saved during this age of grace... are ‘caught up in the twinkling of an eye’. There are no angels sent to gather. We are all ‘caught up’ to meet Jesus in the air.”
It is exactly because not every detail is given in every passage that it is necessary to carefully study them to see if they are the same event or not. Just because Paul does not specifically explain the mechanism by which Church-age believers are gathered, does not mean that it is not done by angels. The term “gathering” is used by Paul to describe the rapture of the church:
2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him...
“The wrath begins already at the sixth seal.”
The Day of Wrath comes AFTER the events of the sixth seal. All of these people of the earth wail NOW? Why? Over a third of the planet has died. There have been wars, famines, diseases, but no outcry until now about the Day of Wrath. Why? The world recognizes the signs in the heavens to mean the time of the Day of Wrath has finally arrived. How?
I propose it because they see the saints caught up and Christ’s coming in glory with the holy angels.
“Just as Christians today do and will increasingly as we get closer to the end times. But we will not be subjected to God’s wrath.”
I agree. The wrath comes at the “end” when the Day of the Lord arrives, when believers are raptured out.
1 Corinthians 15:22-24
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
So Paul says that this resurrection occurs when Christ comes again, AND THEN comes the END. But what did Jesus say about the false peace, the wars, the famines, and the various troubles? This is the beginning of sorrows. It is not the END:
Matthew 24:4-8
And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
After this is great persecution and the Great Tribulation.
Then, AFTER the Great Tribulation, there will be signs in the heavens, including the ultimate sign of Christ’s return.
After this comes the END. The coming of the Lord and the arrival of the Day of the Lord happen simultaneously. They both arrive suddenly and unexpectedly, “like a thief”.
When the Lord returns for us, the Day of the Lord arrives, and the fire of God punishes the wicked:
2 Peter 3:7, 10
But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
[God will] give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Where is the flaming fire from God during the false peace, the wars, the famines, the disease, the earthquakes?
This is NOT the END (the end is not yet). This is not the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord follows the false peace, the wars, the famines, the disease, the earthquakes, the persecution and abomination of desolation, the Great Tribulation, the signs in the heavens, and the return of Christ for believers.
At the end of Revelation 6, the world realizes that Day has arrived. In chapter 7 the 144,000 are sealed from all of Israel’s tribes, and an uncountable multitude from every nation and language suddenly appear in heaven OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION. How did they get there?
Then in chapter 8 we see the fire of God reigning down onto the earth which matches what Peter and Paul say about the flaming vengeance that arrives when Christ returns.
Revelation 8:5, 7, 8, 10
Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.
The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.
Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water.
I said a third of the planet had died, but it is a fourth in Revelation 6:8.
The third of mankind killed occurs in 8:15.
Who is it that is getting married and having a wedding feast up in heaven while this destruction is taking place on earth???
When the rapture happens there are no angels gathering, there is no sighting of Jesus by the entire world. All that happens at the end of the tribulation period. With the rapture the believers meet Jesus in the air.
>>The term “gathering” is used by Paul to describe the rapture of the church:<<
Ok, that's the point the consulting the Greek is needed. It is also the place we find the distinct differences. The word Paul uses means an assembling together (gathering together) just as he uses in Hebrews 10:25 where he says "not forsaking the assembling together". It does not mean that someone is gathering something like they do when they "gather the harvest".
In Mark 13:27 where the angels are gathering a different word is used. The word there means that someone is doing the gathering like "gathering the harvest".
The difference in the two words shows a difference in what is occurring and indicates a different event. Hope I explained that well enough. If not let me know and I will try again.
>>I propose it because they see the saints caught up and Christ’s coming in glory with the holy angels.<<
That can't be. There is much more to happen before that. The events of Revelation happen in order. Christ does not come in glory until all of those things have happened. The seals happen before the trumpet judgements and it's already after the 6th seal that people know that God's wrath is happening already then. Much more is coming and it only intensifies and gets worse.
>>I agree. The wrath comes at the “end” when the Day of the Lord arrives, when believers are raptured out.<<
As I showed from Revelation 6, the wrath has already begun and it's not near the end when Jesus returns at the end of the Trumpet judgements. The believers from this age are gone before the seal judgements.
>>So Paul says that this resurrection occurs when Christ comes again,<<
I'll point you back to 2 Thessalonians 2:1 where I pointed out the different Greek words being used from Mark 13:27. In 2 Thessalonians we meet the Lord in the air. He does not come down to earth. In Mark 13:27 Christ comes to earth to defeat the armies and set up His millennial Kingdom on Earth. In the passage from 1 Corinthians He is not coming to earth. The end Paul is talking about includes all the events of Revelation from the seals to the last trumpet judgements.
>>When the Lord returns for us, the Day of the Lord arrives, and the fire of God punishes the wicked:<<
Yes it does but the "day of the Lord" is not a single day or a single event. It is a series of events. When John says in the beginning of Revelation that he was in the spirit on the Lord's day he was talking about all the things he recorded in Revelations. Throughout scripture the "day of the Lord" or the "Lords day" is referencing that period of time which includes the last seven years of Daniels prophecy concerning Israel.
Look at 2 Peter 3:10 again directly from the Greek.
and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
Notice the "in which". The destruction will come during that time period but at the end of it. Many things will happen "in the day of the Lord" like I said. Don't confuse that to mean just a single day or event.
>>Where is the flaming fire from God during the false peace, the wars, the famines, the disease, the earthquakes?<<
There isn't any "flaming fire" during those times. Those are the times we are in now preceding the "day of the Lord" or what we refer to as the Tribulation period. Notice that Jesus says all of those things happen but the "end is not yet". Once again, keep in mind that the "day of the Lord" is a period of time that all the things of Revelation take place. The Tribulation period actually a seven year period.
>>The Day of the Lord follows the false peace, the wars, the famines, the disease, the earthquakes, the persecution and abomination of desolation, the Great Tribulation, the signs in the heavens, and the return of Christ for believers.<<
Not the way you have it listed there. The "day of the Lord" begins at the peace treaty and ends with Christ's return at the end of that seven years. The wars, famines, disease and earthquakes happen before the peace treaty and are in fact beginning now.
>>and an uncountable multitude from every nation and language suddenly appear in heaven OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION. How did they get there?<<
Those are the people who realized after the rapture that we were correct and begin to believe in Jesus and are killed for that belief and not following the anti Christ.